Major Update - Incapacitate Mechanic Replacing Player Lives

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ability, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. Arath

    Arath New Member

    I can see this being a problem for new recon's. Revive doesn't do much good when you're all the way across the map treasure hunting. Might discourage newbies experimenting with mobcon.
  2. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Incapacitate is an idea that not only helps new players, it also promotes teamwork. The 2nd part is something I'd like to continue building for the game in general. Am fine to even limit revives to 1 for Normal/Hardened/Veteran. The key idea behind Incapacitate is compelling and I find it helps the game overall. It takes team effort to revive someone, especially in tougher difficulties where it impacts not just the dead person but rescue team. Many Normal-Vet games will also have players with 1-3 lives so this equalizes out.

    We've largely nailed out the key framework and are ready for implementation. We can further calibrate the details during live testing to make this work better. It's a process that will take weeks. First post updated with latest mechanics. Thanks everyone for the inputs.

    Arath: Yes - this won't benefit scouting recons. Players using that class to scout away from team will also likely be seasoned ones so impact should be minimal. New players trying to do that will likely be in Recruit games where the revive window is broad enough for players to get to him/her in most cases.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  3. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    We really should tie the amount of incaps a player has to how many lives they're supposed to have under the current system. The current proposal means that veteran players aren't going to pay their dues in Recruit, widening the power gap even further.

    NOTD's long term balance is based around the concept that more stats and weapon mods is a fair tradeoff for having no lives. Just giving a flat 5 incaps to all players in Recruit and a flat 1 in non-recruit/non-nightmare means that we are not using the automated balancing tools that we have made for this purpose. Tying the incap count to the current life count means that newbies will have plenty, good players will have few, and expert players will have none - which is how it should be, considering that the incapacitation mechanic is based around holding the player's hand and allowing them to learn.
  4. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Alternatively, going with my last suggestion and making incapacitate/revives only for new players and keeping the status quo for everyone else would be the simplest and best solution. The majority of feedback we've received about this has been negative because 1) People don't want elements from other games, they want NOTD to be unique, and 2) People don't want the game made easier by taking away the ultimate penalty.
  5. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    in recruit veterans can refuse to revive players because the player was not good or something

    if a player died then other players should not be allowed to steal the items of the incapacitated marine

    notd veterans take the good weapons and leave new players with very little things that can not defend themselves
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Okay, so what do you propose be done about the Luck stat for NOTD 2?
  7. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    OFF TOPIC! Ban him!
  8. ComradeHX

    ComradeHX Well-Known Member

    Veterans take the weapons that gets the job done(often it's flamer and marksman rifle, very very common weapons)...newbies either do not take them or do not use them when needed anyway.

    You only really need the common-three to beat recruit: flamer, gauss, and mm rifle.
  9. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    Even more off topic! Ban her also!
  10. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Both of you stfu. And get back on topic.
  11. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Scrap it or give it a more Fallout-style bonus. Luck shouldn't literally be luck based. Nothing in the NOTD universe should be luck based. That's why Comm Towers was such a loathed mission for so long.
  12. ChuckWing

    ChuckWing Member

    How about you make the luck stat give a chance for the game to end while a video of kate upton doin the dougie plays?

    Increased notd traffic? Check.
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • I'll drink to that! I'll drink to that! x 1
  13. Marcus

    Marcus Member

    I would rather see some reason why should players not rely on incapacitate then just have it as save option. I could imagine that new players would have pool or 1000 Incapacitate points and for each not used incapacitate in game(5 in rec, 1 in norm/hard/vet) decrease the number of 1(rec), 5(norm/hard/vet) at the end of game. If player has 750+ Incapacitate points he can play just recruit. If player has less then 251 he can play nm. For each not used incapacitate player get +2xp(rec) +10 norm/hard/vet at the end of game.

    When u mentioned incapacitate system it remind me of sc2:wol mission Belly of the Beast. There is incapacitate system applied. "Also when one of them completely loses HP, he'll fall incapacitated. He'll remain this way for a while, and will be revived as long as you have another hero around"http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Campaign/Belly_of_the_Beast

    Edit:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If player has 3 incapacitate points left in incapacitate pool he could be incapacitate just 3 times not 5 in recruit.
    The players with 0 incapacitate points cant be revived in any mode.
    Current Players with 10+ nm wins would have 0 incapacitate points.
    Current Players with less then 2k+ xp would have 1000 incapacitate points.
    Current Players with 2k+ xp would have 750 incapacitate points.
    Current Players with 5k+ xp would have 500 incapacitate points. or with 10 normal/hard/vet wins.
    Current Players with 10k+ xp would have 250 incapacitate points. or with 20 normal/hard/vet wins

    @Blaqk: Valerian?
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  14. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Where do you think I built the behavior from? Just a clone of Valerian Hero Death Prevention with a bunch of changes to actors and effects.
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    No.
    No.
    If it's anything but, it defeats the purpose of gambling with your stat points.
    Item drops.
    No, Comm Tower is/was loathed because it is/was boring. Kiting isn't really an option when shit spawns on top of you.
  16. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Kithrixx has valid points - but Chemical Leaks is still more loathed than Comms Tower ever was - that damn side mission needs a drastic improvement of reward or a nerfbat to difficulty to justify the risk. I've heard of it being done, but haven't seen it.


    On topic:

    Here's an idea that everyone will hate me for

    Y'know how sub-500xp is recruit?
    Make sub-1k xp, but higher than 500 xp, force to normal, and raise nightmare requirement to >1,000 xp, and remove the auto-revive outside of recruit, if present.

    This emphasizes teamwork, and forces players to learn teamwork for survival - as well as dulling that learning plateau to a more manageable curve. Would also suggest removing the timer from recruit for unlimited revive time, max cap of 5 auto revives, but unlimited manual revives for sub 500 xp, encouraging teamwork to keep someone in the game, given they have the patience to learn it. Cap normal to 3 revives, and force them to be manual revives with a timer of 60 seconds, anything above normal to 1 revive, with current timers, and of course nightmare to no second chances.
  17. Eagle 11

    Eagle 11 Well-Known Member

    Back in my day when firebats diedanoobsdeathmartyred for the cause leaved a fireball behind, how does this interact with that(if its still there *shrug*)
    It may not be a good idea to let all player class revive off the bat like this, there should be an prequisite to this. Two ideas:
    like requiring a medkit charge(+ one bandaid too optionally) as ingredient, also like to point out magic revives may deepen the gap even further between nm and non-nm.
    It can preq. to have a medic in team to enable this mechanic(when she falls still can get ressed, check if one medic picked at game start then enable this mechanic for the round and gets deactivated on last medic's final death in team)

    Sorry for the caveman sentences am ill today.
  18. ComradeHX

    ComradeHX Well-Known Member

    "Zeus/Leto updated. Respawn mechanic now works in all difficulties. Maximum respawns set at 2 for Recruit and 4 for all other difficulties."

    Respawn?
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  19. Mystes

    Mystes Member

    Then that's just like having 5 lives back in the old lives system and just making it a bit worse with having you wait for quite a while before coming back at your feet :S. Though the advantage of this is that the new person would have some space to breath and try to understand the happenings around.

    I've had a team on nm that had done that mission and it's a living horror indeed O___O
    I do agree that it needs quite the nerf to serve it justice
  20. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    If no one has any violent objections, we can implement Incapacitate for Players with less than 500 XP first as a proof of concept. From what I read, almost everyone agrees that this will help totally new players. All other NOTD mechanics (Lives, Luck Stat) remain unchanged for now.

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