Laser Rifle mechanics

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Peerawatz, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I would never consider using Laser Rifle over the Flamethrower though, for the Firebat. I mean, seriously.

    Laser Rifle is a polar opposite of Flamethrower.

    When it comes down to it, The Barret is just a Heavier Punch on the M45 with increased consumption, it could almost be seen as a strict upgrade.

    Don't ever argue weight of items. The move speed impact of weight is hardly noticable, and frankly, isn't a big deal considering you can just unequip a weapon and walk.
  2. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Weight isn't -that- big of a deal, you're right. But it's still a factor.

    As for the Laser/Flamer thing, I'll do science to it. Don't worry.
  3. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    I actually like that its the opposite, which if viable would give flamer a real choice of weapon to use according to the situation.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    "Depending on the situation"

    Yes.

    Exactly.

    The only weapons that are good against such tough enemies are the HMG (which is rare), the Barrett (which is rare and never really used except as an osok booster), and the Flamethrower (which is short ranged). The other less effective but still ammo efficient solutions are either incredibly slow (M45) or short ranged (shotgun, pistol).

    The Laser is a more accessible alternative, prioritizing speed over efficiency. The new Laser would be niche, but would start seeing use outside of fighting Eos as it's not nearly as crap vs. regular enemies as it is now.
  5. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Going to update Laser Rifle to Kith's proposal mostly. The original proposal is too effective (similar/better ammo efficiency with M5 Pulse/HK and same range which shouldn't be the case). If the new version is still too overpowered, will be reducing the base damage to 12.

    - Laser Rifle range increased from 11 to 12. Attack speed reduced from 0.22 to 0.26. Base damage increased from 10 to 13. Item weight increased from 10 to 20. Reload time increased from 3 to 3.3. Splash damage radius reduced from 0.5 to 0.1. (Kithrixx)
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I'm actually totally okay with the range getting nerfed down to 10. Arturia has a very good point.

    What I'd -really- like to see, however, is the aesthetic projectile change. It will help vets direct newbies - much easier to tell where a newbie is firing if there's a tracer.

    Also it looks neat and the battlecruiser projectile is overused. Also used by UA3's Flamethrower, which I kinda dislike.
  7. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Agree - may need Peera/AP's help on the projectile visual.
  8. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    This seems like an overall nerf to the laser. Less splash, less queen / hades2 dps (Which is what matters).
    This new laser performs slightly better vs a typical zombie, but worse vs queen / hades2, which is where you actually use it. Still very ammo inefficient vs hordes.

    Original laser vs queen / hades2
    Damage:
    30 damage x 30 shots = 900
    Time:
    .22 x 30 = 6.6 + 3 reload = 9.6
    DPS:
    93.75

    New Laser vs queen / hades2
    Damage:
    33 damage x 30 shots = 990
    Time:
    .26 x 30 = 7.8 + 3.3 reload = 11.1
    DPS:
    89.19
  9. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Kith's intent is to give it more overall utility for the rest of the game (vs. just Queen/Hades which it should still be strong at). Ammo efficiency has gone up at least 30% with the change too. That and additional range makes the weapon more sustainable/versatile.
  10. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    The most important part of the change was the projectile speed which was not implemented.
  11. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Projectile Travel Time tends to lead to wasting ammo, because if you were to be firing slow moving projectiles, you would fire many of them, and keep firing many of them at a target, until they start to hit the target, and it dies. However, by the time they hit the target, you would still have many coming afterwards, and if the target dies, those attacks were wasted on attacking that target.

    Which is also a reason why the Laser Rifle wasted ammo (and why the old M5 Pulse was bad); it fired at unis that are already dead.
  12. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I think they meant the instant transition that I suggested. No matter - I'm sure it can be figured out very easily. Unless I'm mistaken, the M45 and the GPR have instant transmission of attack, don't they?
  14. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Yes thats what i mean, at its current state i still wont use it for anything but eos. You waste atleast 4-5 shots per target just due to the projectiles in the air while the targets dies.
  15. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Yes, right now Laser Rifle still uses missile (M45/GPR don't). Someone can do the maths, slower base attack speed also means less ammo waste.
  16. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    The GPR, HMG, Shotgun, SMG, HK, M5, Crowbar, all have instant effects of attack.

    M45, Barret, I think is instant effect. I'm kinda sure they had an animation delay that might cause a person to target something already dead during the animation, but that would probably never have a noticeable effect on ammo lost.

    Laser Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Stinger, Shiva have a projectile effect that must land in order for damage to be dealt.

    Unless the projectile hits faster than the next cycle of attack, it would waste ammo, and even then, faster attack speed would result in increased waste.

    EDIT: The Reasoning is that the Target isn't dead when the projectile lands, but if the delay between projectiles being fired off is sufficient, then the next projectile wouldn't be launched, and no waste occurs. But if the projectiles are fired faster than they land, then you start to see more and more ammo wasted, as projectiles are launched faster than they land, so a projectile will be mid-air when one hits and kills a target, resulting in that projectile being wasted, meaning wasted ammunition.

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