Laser Rifle mechanics

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Peerawatz, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    I never like Laser Rifle, and it's sole purpose of being anti-Eos and maybe slasher and the fact that it acts like another fast-firing automatic weapon (let's see, we have standard rifle, SMG, HMG, Pulse and HK, all of which simply do the same thing, with different ranges/bonuses).

    I want it to be a more powerful weapon with unique capabilities, akin to Stinger/GrenL etc. so that it can be more useful, and can appear more often on various mission (but still rare of course)

    It can now be anything energy-related, Plasma Rifle, Rail-gun, Laser Rifle, Proton Cannon or wtfever you think is suitable for this role.

    Main idea is that it's a powerful single target dps weapon unlike Stinger, and doesn't have lolwtf range like Barret (but fires faster) and probably has unique effects that make it not just any guns.

    My current idea is it being a moderate speed long range rifle that deals considerable amount of damage per hit, has no armor penalty, uses small amount of marine's energy each shot and set enemies aflame, dealing additional DOT and reveals their location for 5 seconds. (akin to LD), the fire on DOT has aoe effect while the actual ddamage has no aoe.
  2. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    If we're going to do an energy drain per shot, I suggest something along the lines of 0.5 energy drained per shot (or maybe even 0.3). Other than that, I am all for such a rework.
  3. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Assault with Suppressive Fire?

    Laser Rifle fires at a rate of 0.22 so in just 1 normal second you fire 4,5 shots which is 1,35 energy in a second.

    Double the rate and its 2,7 energy in a second which is easily going to cripple a class.


    Reaper you fool, we change the attack and up the damage
    Ah I see that could work though if possible you can switch between modes
    OFF - Does not drain energy per shot and deals damage only to primary target
    ON - Drains energy per shot and adds the AoE with increased damage
  4. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well, I never did like the Laser Rifle. And during it's stint as an "Ultimate Weapon" I would facepalm as I saw people burning an entire clip to do what a Gauss Rifle might have done in 5 shots. Nowadays it just has too much competition from Stingers, Shotguns, Barretts, etc, to really have a niche other than burning down Erebos (With lucky spawns) or Eos.

    So I'm in favor of a reworking of it. I think you're somewhat on the right track. The LD thing seems silly as if you could have shot it in the first place you already have eyes on it. It definitely needs to be useable in more storylines, like Alpha which has really no high armor targets to speak of that are worth Laser Rifling. And I almost never see it used in Apollo Security Team either.

    I think as a Single Target weapon unless it throws out as much damage as the Barrett it's probably not going to see use in Security Team. Just need the AoE of HMGs, etc, a lot more than you need high damage spikes. Might be good against Hades but that's all that really pops out in my mind. Plus doesn't Hades have 20 armor right now anyway and still people don't LR him down even with the 30 damage a shot DPS?

    Alpha Company that might see work in the hands of a Rifleman or something I suppose. Particularly if the Burning Effect stacked with any HE effects or gave Fire Vulnerability (Something I wish was in Alpha more considering Flamethrower Class).
  5. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I always thought laser should be reworked and be similar to void ray with energy drain
  6. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Before we do any major weapon reworks/additions, I'm really going to have to do the inventory rework first, because of the entire ammo system being trigger based. Once that is done, making a weapon that only consumes energy will be trivial to make.

    As for the weapon idea itself, I like it for one sole reason, it gives a weapon in the game that will only function most optimally on the Rifleman. However, for the same reason, we now have to balance the weapon against all the energy based regeneration effects instead of the relatively straightforward ammo system, which for can only be manipulated by 2 skills (Supply Station and Ammo Feed) and 1 item (HCM). Stack enough energy on rifle (say 2 ET + 9 Int + some restore/SS) and you have a weapon that will never reload, effectively becoming the best DPS weapon ever, no matter how bad you make the attack speed/damage (Have to make it insanely low to to not be godly).
  7. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    NOT only consumes energy. God no. Consumes ammo and a small amount of energy.
  8. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    In that case, it will be automatically considered garbage, why use it when it's draining 2 resources at once? Especially one I can better use. There is not a single DPS class I can name that has some abundance of energy, they usually are sucking the bottom of a barrel for it, with Rifle being the sole exception (even then, if he uses ANY other skill, his energy starts to fall off, such as FF or Pshot). Would have to be pretty impressive to use this over say, a HMG, Barret, even the original Laser Rifle.
  9. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Idk, Combat/field engie, nano med, ss rec, mobrec with refresher and the like come to mind.
  10. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    All are true, however neither recon is a DPS class (a lesson we often have to pound into new recons), Nano has no major damage boosting effects (Nano strength only) and should be unleashing VI and Sear on anything and everything. Field Engie is often dropping towers and respawning nexus, and often using satchels to level or control mobs. Combat is about the only one and that hinges on him not repwaaning bot, since he is spamming BHS on every CD.

    In short, by making the weapon cost energy and ammo, you now have the task of balancing it against all weapons in dps/ammo and then balancing it against every offensive ability that any dps or caster class will be using. Would have to be a pretty impressive weapon to risk not being able to use say, Surgical Strike, Harvester of Sorrow, Quick Aim, but it also must be balanced in combo with those as well. Just looks like a massive balancing headache to me.
  11. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    This is going to be a sledgehammer to my head or get me thrown out of a building :p

    When equipped the Laser Rifle grants increased energy regeneration?


    But another look is once it is equipped it starts to drain energy at a minimal amount whether your shooting or not.
    If possible you can up the power on the Laser Rifle which increases the energy drain amount in exchange for increased attack damage or larger splash.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Alternately, it can be used by the support classes to give them a bit of a boost in killing power. A Field Aid Medic could use it to aid her in leveling. If the player doesn't want to expend a ton of energy, then switch to a different weapon or use Hold fire.

    I know I railed against energy-based weapons in the K Report on Weapons, but those were ones specifically fueled by energy. Ones that use energy and also ammo are a different story, because then the weapons in question do not necessarily need to drain a ton of energy to work.
  13. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    What if it's an already powerful single target dps weapon with absolutely no attack cd, a marine can keep firing it at the speed of death as long as he has enough ammo and energy, think of it as Barret with 0.1 attack speed but drains energy, what do you think?
  14. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    But that's what the laser rifle is already sans the energy requirement Peer.

    In any case, I think the Laser should remain a weapon which is comparatively better on non DPS classes than DPS classes because the bonus damage is not modified on the player.
    Outside of Arms Assault, its not like you give the laser to commando, rifle etc. YOu give the laser to rec, med and other classes, while DPS classes use UA and CG
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I'm with Ghost. I'd like to see a Laser Rifle that is actually BAD to use on a DPS character who features attack speed increases because then the rate of energy drain becomes unacceptable. Supports need better weapon choices than just the M45 and the L3.
  16. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    The only thing those classes have is a large energy pool which you can put several interesting mechanics into like damage increase/function based on max/current energy pool % which would by default be then best suited for the Nano Medic with Capacitors and the Combat Engineer with Battery.
  17. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    At the moment, short of a full rework, I'd propose the following:
    -Slow attack speed to 0.34
    -Increase damage to 19
    -Increase armor modifier to -1.5
    -Add penalty vs Light of -5 (Unique, also works out at same damage to ghoul/gargoyle as currently)
    -Add bonus vs Mechanical of +6
    -Increase splash to 0.9 (more useful against nonbosses too, i.e. hulks, immortals)
    -Drain 0.33 energy per shot in addition to 1 ammo (1 mag = 10 energy)
    -Increase projectile speed to something a lot faster (reduces overflow waste of ammo/E)
    --Maybe make it a beam, that'd be better anyhow and fit with increased splash
    Show Spoiler

    Actually a beam that damages everything in its path and benefits from micro targeting target furthest away would be awesome


    It gets the point across of:
    1. Its not meant for light targets (penalty to Light)
    2. Its meant for targets with armor (armor reduction and penalty to Light)
    3. It melts metal (heat)
    4. IT EATS AMMO AND ENERGY

    Calculations:
    Unmodified, would deal 1470 dmg per mag on Queen, compared to 1020 now
    Unmodified, would deal 1065 dmg per mag to Hulk, compared to 750 now
    Unmodified, would deal 975 dmg per mag to IVAX/Seth, compared to 570 now
    Unmodified, would deal 705 dmg per mag to Agron, compared to 510 now

    Note: It would waste LESS ammo (and thus energy) than now due to faster projectiles. So you aren't firing an additional 6-7 rounds (+attack speed) at a target that already died.

    Actually, I don't know, but it still seems a bit lacklustre vs some armored Bio units because flamer is still more effective vs Hulk than Laser. How could we balance it that it would be a good weapon to use against Hulks, Immortals, Agrons. Note a Hulk in NM has 850 or so HP and Agron 1500+
  18. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    What.

    No.

    Rapid fire + energy drain = absolutely not. That will make it borderline useless. I know it works out to be roughly 10 energy per clip, but it is completely and totally useless on any DPS class, as opposed to "less useful than most" with Peer's concept.

    I'd also like to point out that the Laser is a heat based weapon. A penalty versus light targets doesn't make sense, as fire is traditionally effective against lightly armored or unarmored targets.
  19. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Wait I'm not finished yet. Constantly making edits and calculations :p
    Was just hogging the post space first
  20. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Peerawatz already has effects for a laser projectile.

    [video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ogHUhc4XNms[/video]

    Also, it's always an option to just not let the weapon be available until after Erebos

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