Kith's Rifleman Rework

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    It's like OpComm vs. DeltaComm. They both do different shit, there's no point comparing them. If the Combat Rifle turns out to be -too- powerful, then we'll tone him down. Besides, the Arms Assault still has some buffs to be made.
  2. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    My concern is that we improving just abiut every class rather than bringing em all down to a common balance.
    The knock on effect this has is that notd ends up like an arcade and enemy hp etc need to be adjusted upward as a result as well.

    Every class you are rebalancing was made more powerful rather than change the basic mechanic and leave/reduce the numbers on the affected or other classes.
  3. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    What about Recon? As I recall you were actually in the small camp complaining that the Recon was being butchered into pathetic levels of weakness. :p

    And the stream of complaints about the Sex Ops being weakened forever and terribad now that the two best abilities aren't on the same tree. :p


    Though in all seriousness I see this as something that should be done Ghost. There's a lot of things in NOTD that seem artifacts of old design, concepts that no longer exists, or hell, just in references to something The Man liked when he started creating stuff. See: Making the Asgard because he liked the Gun Drone thing from some Modern Warfare game. Hell, Inception itself, the fact for the majority of NOTD it was still called "Dr. Freeman's Crowbar", Griefer Gun, etc.

    It's growing pains. But the only way to stop growing is Death. And we don't want that.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Improvements tend to happen when going from less cohesive design to more cohesive design. A good example of this is the Tau Commander for The Last Stand. Numbers wise, he's not any more powerful than the other commanders, but all of his equipment is designed to go together whereas the other commanders have much lower synergy rates because they were designed over a period of several years with updates in-between, so he's much more effective.

    The Combat Engineer.
    I'm not aiming to make everything more powerful, Ghost. I'm bringing everything to that "common balance" that you mentioned.
  5. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I like the changes to sonic trap, however I'm finding that for super fast enemies (espcially on NM with charge), the traps can more or less be totally bypassed, their high movespeed (think seekers/ghouls/anything charging, especially if on creep), allows them to completely slip past traps between pulses. Although this doesn't really affect non-NM, it makes traps less the optimal for NM games. I am aware that you can place traps farather out to prevent this, however this only results in the old issue with lvl 2 traps, pushing stuff so far away out of your sight ranges, merely creating a death ball that comes rushing in when the trap fails.

    To compensate, I would reduce the time between pulses by 1 second, to 4 seconds. This should encourage smart trapping, but not render then totally useless vs high speed enemies.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I've been testing rifle a lot, and I've seen him tested a lot. I agree with Arcane. The delay could use a 1 to 1.5 second decrease and then traps will be fine in my book.
  7. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    There have been a few times where it would have been nice to set a 6th trap. 7 wouldn't be needed, just 6
  8. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    What if made traps selectable with a hotkey to turn it on or off? This would give rifleman a bit more micro to do and would keep the few traps he has from being wasted (for example during the dropship countdown when he's trying to get out traps for the air wave).
  9. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I think that would be a step too far to take. Not like we can set mines to only attack what targets we want. But as is, with the proposed buffs, that is the only real weakness to the talent. That it's a set and let shit happen. Had a trap wasted because only a single troll zombie popped it? Eh. So be it, it's the price you pay for setting up things far in advanced. Not like Demos haven't dealt with troll spawns or MEATeors blowing up their carefully planned mine lay outs, etc. You lose out due to the higher advantage of being able to prepare.

    And as they say, "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy."
  10. Kage

    Kage Member

    What I really think it should do is to have a lower cooldown.Right now,with the limit of 5 traps and current cooldown,it takes close to 5minutes to lay down all 5.Increasing the number of traps wont help as much as reducing the cooldown as there is still that 50second buffer before you can lay down the next one.
  11. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    Make rifleman can pick up traps, if its not expired.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Just like the retainer system I suggested. Who would've thought?
  13. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Only issue with that is it's going to reset the number of charges on the trap. So the next big cheese will be picking up and replanting traps for "new" charges.
  14. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    But your still bound by traps cooldown, which should make that a moot point? Just because you pick one up doesn't mean trap cooldown auto resets.
  15. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    I can take a trap with 1 charge, pick it up, replant, now I have 5 new charges, and I can continue planting refresh traps while doing so.

    Definitely fair and balanced.
  16. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    No see this is with the maxed 5 traps. Picking up a trap erases its existence, and has no effect on when you can place the next one.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Traps can be retrieved for 25 energy?
  18. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Why would you need to? I mean I don't get it. Traps aren't some item with a fixed stock that you can spam down as long as you have stock, like Mines or Assault Jumps. And my understanding from the discussion was that New Traps would replace the Oldest Trap. In which case if you are having a problem because you lost an Important trap to a less important trap placement is more User Error than anything else. And if you can't figure out how to trap well enough to protect the team with just 5 traps... need to go back to Rifleman School.
  19. Faneria

    Faneria New Member

    How about make the trap can use detonate? so no one can cheese
  20. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Because then it would again be Strictly Better than Repulse in the majority of game situations.

    I still think Sonic Traps are a bit too powerful, sure they've been gimped from just random trap spam but otherwise everything they do has been buffed pretty damned good from what they were before. Sure, you can't just spam and are now forced to think about your placement... but it's still a much better talent than Repulse. Hell as a Survival Rifleman half the time I'll skip out on Repulse to to work on Crits one level earlier, that's how much better sonic traps are than Repulse in almost every situation.

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