Kith's Rifleman Rework

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    [align=center]Kith’s Rifleman Rework
    Because he’s tired of your shit
    [/align]

    Nobody is coming to a conclusion because all of the ideas are disjointed, and some of them are simply bad despite what their creators may believe. The biggest problem that I see is that nobody is stopping to ask the question “how would this change NOTD?”, so grumpy old Uncle Kithrixx is going to ask (and answer) that question for you for each and every skill so hopefully you pick up on a few things.

    INNATE
    Focus Fire – Active: 8 energy cost, 5 second duration, 5 second cooldown.
    Increases damage by 25%, sight range by 3, and reduces attack speed by 20%.

    Notes: This hasn’t changed. It’s a good skill, it teaches newbies that damage > attack speed, and it all around saves ammo.

    COMBAT
    Changes are geared towards making the Combat Rifleman a solid DPS and leading to more cohesive design. His job is going to be dealing damage and not much else.

    Tier 1

    Critical Strike – Passive
    Grants a chance to deal double damage on attacks.

    Level 1 - 10% chance
    Level 2 - 20% chance
    Level 3 - 30% chance

    Notes: This hasn’t changed. It’s generic, but acceptably so, and it fits the role of the class.

    Fire Up – Pseudopassive*
    *Something that upgrades an active.
    The Rifleman gets fired up, upgrading Focus Fire and applying bonuses to Grenades while under the effect of Focus Fire. Each level increases the energy cost of Focus Fire by 1.

    Level 1 – Increases damage by 28%, sight range by 3, and reduces attack speed by 5%.
    Level 2 – Increases damage by 31%, sight range by 3, and attack speed by 10%.
    Level 3 – Increases damage by 34%, sight range by 3, and attack speed by 25%.

    Notes: The levels outline the changes to Focus Fire. Less mindless than Rapid Fire, the sole purpose of which was to negate the attack speed slow of Focus Fire. Small damage bonus added in addition to a larger attack speed bonus to mitigate the fact that it is now a passive that upgrades an active. Synergy with Grenades will be outlined in the Grenades section.

    Tier 2

    Weapons Proficiency – Passive
    Thanks to the Rifleman's intensive weapon training, he is skilled with anything that has a trigger, wielding his weapons more effectively than the average soldier. Constant weapons drills have turned reloading into an act of muscle memory, decreasing the Rifleman's reload time with all weapons.

    Level 1 - Decreases reload time by 15%
    Level 2 - Decreases reload time by 30%

    Notes: The Combat Rifleman was the only “generic combatant” (other examples being the Arms Assault and the Operations Commando) to not have a way to mitigate reloads. On top of that, the Survival Rifleman, the disable/support tree, had this ability, making it a better candidate for the Heavy Machine Gun than the DPS tree. That’s like the Recon being a better candidate for the Barrett than the Marksman. The base damage increase has been lowered to mitigate the fact that it is now on the Combat tree as opposed to the Survival tree.

    Rifle Grenades – Active: 25 energy cost, 2 second cooldown.
    The Rifleman fires a grenade from his under barrel launcher at a target that deals instant damage to the target and nearby enemies. Grenades are capable of Critical Strikes, deal 33% more damage to light units, and gain bonuses when used with Focus Fire.

    Level 1 - 75 damage, 11 cast range, 3 radius. +3 damage per hero level.
    Level 2 - 150 damage, 11 cast range, 3 radius. +6 damage per hero level.

    Fired Up bonuses:
    +0.5/1/1.5 radius to Grenades.
    Bonus damage (which –should– already be applied because Focus Fire is “green damage”, but I wanted to double check).

    Notes: Whoo synergy. Grenades now serve a dual purpose and also scale based on level, making them less shitty late game and less facestompy early game. Also, before you cry nerf, assuming that the Rifleman does not have double talents or CP, he will gain the Grenade ability at Level 5. 5*3 = 15, 75 + 15 = 90. MAN, HOW ABOUT THAT SHIT

    Tier 3

    Bloodlust – Active: 15 energy cost, 10 second cooldown
    The carnage the Rifleman unleashes triggers a martial trance, sending him into a state of heightened reflexes and combat fervor, granting him increased attack speed and damage for 10 seconds.

    Level 1 - 50% increases attack speed, 50% increased damage. Removes base armor.

    Notes: Marginally increased the energy because of the endless bitching about the Combat Rifleman’s infinite sustainability. Also changed the description because the hallmark of a good soldier is not one who loses his shit in a combat situation, it’s one who stays calm and keeps his wits about him so he can react properly. This guy is supposed to be a hardened veteran, not a grunt that doesn’t know how to control himself. As the saying goes, an angry soldier fights blind. His profile states that he's "Well trained, disciplined and loyal", and losing his mind in a combat situation does not suggest he is any of those things.


    SURVIVAL
    Changes are geared towards making the Survival Rifleman all disables, all the time. Doesn’t deal nearly as much damage as the Combat Rifleman does, but can stop foes in their tracks (or even knock them back).

    Tier 1

    Saline IV – Active: 20 energy cost, 15 second cooldown
    Built into the Rifleman's powered armor are neuro-injectors that will, on command, inject a drug that heals the Rifleman. At later levels the drug will also cure certain ailments.

    Level 1 - Heals 20 health
    Level 2 - Heals 40 health and cures 1 Venom
    Level 3 - Heals 60 health and cures 1 Open Wound and 1 Venom

    Notes: Hasn’t changed. Still a good skill.

    Crippling Fire – Pseudopassive
    The Rifleman aims to slow the advance of enemy targets during Focus Fire, hitting their joints and ligaments. Produces additional effects when used with Precision Shot.

    Level 1 – Targets suffer 15% movespeed loss and 5% attack speed loss.
    Level 2 – Targets suffer 20% movespeed loss and 10% attack speed loss.
    Level 3 – Targets suffer 25% movespeed loss and 15% attack speed loss.

    Notes: Now with a useful slow and skill synergy! The energy increase was removed because apparently the Survival Rifleman has enough energy problems as it is. I personally believe that it's just a question of not being stupid with your skill use, but popular bitching opinion overrides my own if loud enough.

    Tier 2

    Precision Shot – Active: 10 energy cost, no cooldown
    The Rifleman takes aim and fires well-placed shot at the legs of a single target, slowing it on impact for 5 seconds. Deals 67% more to massive targets.

    Level 1 - Deals 75 damage and slows the target by 40%
    Level 2 - Deals 150 damage and slows the target by 60%

    Crippling Fire bonuses:
    Precision Shot stuns targets for .5/1/2 seconds and increases slow duration by .5/1/2 seconds (so the slow is not “nerfed” by the presence of the stun).
    Precision Shot’s slow is increased by 3%/6%/9%.
    Bonus damage (which should already be applied, but just making sure).

    Notes: Once again, skill synergy. A new part of being a good Survival Rifleman is knowing when to and when not to stun. I’m sure you’ll notice a pattern of making chaining the abilities together making them more powerful. This pattern is me aiming to make the tiers of Riflemen separated based on who makes the most of skill chains.

    Sonic Trap – Active: 50 second cooldown
    The Rifleman lays down an ultrasonic device which detonates when a non-massive enemy comes within a radius 3 area. The blast pushes all non-Massive and non-Heroic units back, stuns them for 0.3 seconds, and illuminates the area to all Marines. The trap has 7 charges. Massive and Heroic units are slowed. Maximum of 5 traps active per player.

    Level 1 - Targets in a 5 radius are pushed back slightly. Slows Massive units by 25% and Heroic units by 12% for 4 seconds. 0.3 second stun. Costs 50 Energy.
    Level 2 - Targets in a 8 radius are pushed back greatly. Slows Massive units by 50% and Heroic units by 24% for 4 seconds. 1.2 second stun. Costs 55 Energy.

    Notes: The majority of the changes that I wanted to make were made when I wasn’t looking and can be found in the change log. I’m tired of seeing traps spammed endlessly. It’s stupid. When a team is on the move, the Survival Rifleman shouldn’t be dropping Sonic Traps behind them to blob up spawns, they should be something used for holdouts. They’re excellent crowd control, and are largely passive once put in place, so I’m pleased to see that they’ve been adjusted to require more thought.

    Tier 3

    Repulse – Active: 25 energy cost, 12 second cooldown.
    The Rifleman's armor pushes itself to maximum power, greatly increasing its movement speed and armor. The excess power bursts from the suit, stunning nearby enemies in the area. Can Critical Strike. The power surge lasts 10 seconds. While under the effects of Repulse, the use of Saline IV (level 3) will also remove cripple.

    Level 1 - Units in 7 radius are stunned and lose 10 armor for 3 seconds. Deals 125 damage to affected units. Massive and Armored units take more damage. Increases Rifleman's movespeed by 50% and +2 armor for 10 seconds. Grants detection.

    Notes: There’s nothing to change here. I question its ability to crit, but that’s not necessarily a balance issue. Keep in mind I just copied this from the Wiki and I'm not so sure if the numbers are accurate, but it really doesn't need to be changed from what the current numbers are.

    F.A.Q.

    Did this really deserve its own thread?
    Considering how clogged with crap the other thread was? Yes. Yes it did.
  2. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Hm so trap is 50 or 45 cd?
    I notice you decreased cost at lvl2 instead of increase too.

    Armor on repulse in your rework got a nerf? In game its +2. I believe the damage is also higher (has bonus vs arm and mass)

    Crippling fire is an upgrade to Focus Fire? Doesn't state. What happens if you get both Crippling Fire and Fire Up? Might have to account for a large number of different combinations.

    Does radius increase on nade work with FF on? What if you fire the nade and then FF? Currently that would still deal the FF bonus damage. In the rework the radius probably wouldn't get increased on that already-fired nade?

    Weapon Proficiency on the Combat Rifle *needs* be be toned down as it would make him completely OP. He'd be a candidate for Sec team in that state (well he is part of it, but keep in mind he is primarily EC and AC). His dps is insanely high for a base class with that, so would say no damage bonus, just reload bonus 15/30.

    On EU for instance noone tends to go for Prec shot, just 3-3-0-2-1 and his dps is pretty much through the roof even on NM. If weapon prof was kept in that state, I can only dread the carnage of his even more godly dps considering the Rapid Fire replacement buff.
  3. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Dodge Percentage (50~) would do wonders for Repulse's "Survivability." Right now its more like "Aoe Death Attack with Sprint" on Recruit, and "Boss Stun is possible" anywhere else. Actually, why the hell does Repulse deal damage? It should be a shove (read: shove, not knockback, they're different) that literally PUSHES all the shit near him away.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    50. Derp on my part. Also, the decreased cost is in the change log. Really the only thing that I explicitly added was a cap on active amount of sonic traps.

    I just copy/pasted it from the Wiki. Whatever it is currently. Like I said, it doesn't need changed.

    Fixed that, and yes, it upgrades Focus Fire. Improved Coolant Lines and Coming in Hot both upgrade one skill, so I'm not worried about the potential clusterfuck.

    The Grenade's bonuses only apply when fired under the effect of Focus Fire that is upgraded with Fire Up.

    We'll see.

    Again, we'll see.[hr]
    I don't mind the damage, honestly. It's good for wiping out a large amount of light enemies, which is really useful for NOTD, considering swarms of small enemies are arguably the most deadly.
  5. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    Just quickly got a screenshot of repulse statistics. Unfortunately, Repulse on the wiki was outdated. As Ghost said, it's +2 armor now and it's also +50% movespeed increased rather than 40%. This armor and movespeed bonus lasts for 10 seconds.

    I will fix this on the wiki now.
  6. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Thanks for clarifying Kith. Traps in game however are 50/55 typo in changelog.

    I will still say that the best course of action is to keep the numbers on weapon proficiency low as I suggested and buff if people feel it is too weak.
    People don't complain that their class does too much damage, only if it does too little.

    As a rifleman player I can tell you the numbers are too high and need to be as I suggested in the first instance.
  7. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I have to agree with Ghost on weapon proficiency, remove the damage buff. With the new Fire Up, you just made Combat Rifle the ultimate death machine with Barret. Combined everything together and you have a rapid firing, base damage of 250ish, fast reloading Barret. It would make it totally stupid to put barret on anything BUT Combat Rifle. I would never be able to justify giving Barret to even SMM when I have a Combat Rifle who will deal vastly more damage with it.

    Otherwise I like it, though one thing occurred to me. With both the passives boosting focus fire, one could in theory build a viable hybrid Rifleman, the revolves around Focus Fire, and getting either targeted disable (Pshot) or focus more on crowd control (get both grenades/traps). Just a thought on paper on what I see.
  8. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    Liking the concept of the rework. However, I don't play rifleman too often so I can't really comment much about the energy costs, cooldowns and other number related stuff.
    So level 1 traps are actually 50 energy and level 2 are 55? ffs, gonna have to change the traps section of wiki page again when I get more time. Don't have enough time right now.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Alright. I'll tone down the Reload and remove the damage.

    That's sort of what I was going for! A hybrid build would actually be viable as a general DPS/Disable. This is why I want the trees to be so radically different: I want overleveling to make the player branch out, not do more of the same.
  10. HDD
    • Donator

    HDD Well-Known Member

    I love this re-work. +1 Kith . Personnaly it feel much more sense than the actual rifleman. The only part i'm gonna miss its the Bloodlust Warcry that have the actual rifleman. I just like the way he yell the shit out and start shooting whit the fking shotgun and be like DIE DIE YOU BI**H ZOMBIES.(Still very funny, its just me that like the brute force style lol) My only question, does his main stats will be re-worked has well? (Energy regen rate, HP , Armor, etc...)
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    His stats will be left alone. Bloodlust will still retain its sound files.

    Honestly, Ghost has a point. Crit increases DPS by a sizable amount, and so does Focus Fire (even moreso after Fire Up). Every Rifleman that isn't pants-on-head retarded will have Focus Fire on during every encounter, so we have to more or less treat it as a passive damage boost. Weapons Proficiency's main attraction is the reload reduction, and 25/50 is a little high. How about this: I'll run it as 20/40, and if it becomes too stupid, we'll knock it down to 15/30.
  12. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Note that the previous 50 is identical to OpComms combo-reloads.
  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    And the OpsComm is the Super Rifleman, which is a large reason as to why I want Weapons Proficiency in the Combat Tree.
  14. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    I don't think this rework does have answer at all.

    Its same Rifleman, and only one side has Weapon Proficiency? Which doesn't make sense at all. Knowing how to use weapons and stuffs surrounds you is very important thing for survive. Seems like Both has same title as "Rifleman" but somehow ended up have different background? i'm sure 'both rifleman' has trained how to use weapons intensively, Weapon Proficiency has to be an innate skill for rifleman.

    And i ask you to rework skills based on this?

    Which sounds more promising.

    And there are starting skills and innate skill according to wiki, so its different.
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    They're all there in the notes section.

    It makes sense to me. Combat Rifleman is the Combat Specialist.

    Yeah, and all classes know how to use the weapons. The Combat Rifleman is the footsoldier who doesn't have anything else to focus on, so it makes sense that he's the one with an ability dedicated to reloading quickly because the only tools he's given are his weapon and his Grenade Launcher accessory.

    How do you figure?

    A survivalist isn't interested in fighting. A survivalist is interested in avoiding as many confrontations as possible so he can continue surviving.

    I'm going to have to disagree. I think Weapon Specialization is better off solely on the Combat tree.

    Look, I'm going to say this here and now: I'm not going to argue semantics with you. I consider Innate abilities abilities that are automatically known/learned by Level 1 characters, the ones that come with the class without having to spend talent points. I'm going to continue calling it that because I have heard them referred to as such consistently for roughly a year. I'm sorry that it bothers you, but get over it, because it doesn't actually matter.
  16. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Going to point out.

    Every Single Fucking Class has innate abilities.

    Riflemans is that he swaps weapons faster, and is slowed less by creep.

    "Certain" Classes have starting skills, which were more or less added "Because."
  17. Seeky

    Seeky New Member

    I like how it builds on his starting skill, but I don't like the increase in energy cost of Fire Up... What kind of skill (spammable or not) increases in energy cost the more you level it up.. Imagine if the Opsmando had +3 energy cost per level each for Surgical strike and Adrenaline. At least, if you're gonna increase the energy cost, increase the duration by 1.5 seconds per level, while retaining the cooldown. Would encourage smarter play that way. Also, for weapons proficiency, instead of straight up nerfing the skill in transition to Combat, why not have a temporary (5second) damage boost of 20% when you pull off a Perfect reload?

    Another thing about precision shot that bothers me is that it only affects a handful of bosses, if the slow % was toned down to half or even a third on bosses, it would be infinitely more useful than it is now.

    Note: currently Rifleman's grenade does receive damage boost from Bloodlust and Focus fire. 700dmg Grit Nades are possible.
  18. TsukinoUsagi

    TsukinoUsagi Well-Known Member

    Hmm. I like idea of Crippling Shot, and moving Precision Shot to survival tree is more make sense for me. While the combat tree become more pure dps.
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I did the energy increase mostly because people were bitching about how the Combat Rifleman was a wellspring of energy, so with the new Fired Up and Grenade synergy, I imagine people will stop mentioning their bottomless energy reserves.

    Noted.

    Yep. Just making sure that the bonus damage from Fired Up goes into the Grenade. Skilled timing of Bloodlust, Focus Fire, and Grenade should lead to some pretty sweet numbers.[hr]
    Glad to hear it.
  20. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I don't understand Seeky's point that Precision Shot isn't useful on bosses, but would be if the Slowing was less. More slowing is always better, you just made kiting easier, you just made inevitable doom charges quite delayed. If you're tanking it's not really a concern. Only ting Precision Shot isn't really good for is Eos because she is just randomly immune to its slow. I suppose it's also bad against Barney if your kiter is a goober who doesn't try to move him until the creep is already fully spread under him so the slow just means he's invulnerable for longer. But hell... say, Precision Shot against Mentos is just signing his death warrant, as the slow is high enough that any marine can keep up with him under it. Makes Erebos infinitely easier to kite out, Tartar Sauce's speed countered, keeping Demeter away from Staring, etc. Just good times.

    Edit: I still I don't the Traps. It still overshadows the rest of the tree as a Trap is better at control than Repulse, Precision Shot, or Crippling Shot. I actually feel that Precision Shot will be even LESS valued because Traps would now slow massives and heroics, the best targets for Precision Shot in general. Ghost points out how most Riflemen are already morons. Skipping Precision Shot is just... a waste. Sure Grenades do more sheer damage but Precision Shot is highly useful utility. All the fucking around I did with Riflemen, the general Easy Company build, the most optimal one, was 3 Crit, 1 Rapid, 2 Grenades, 2 Precision, Bloodlust. In Alpha, fuck grenades, AoE Doom is everywhere anyway, and Immortal Spam makes Precision Shot use more important. Apollo, helps keep stuff under control, like slowing down Athena's inevitable death charge on the team (In fact I had a team do it without Force Push by judicious use of Shoot to Maim and Precision Shot, very dicey but we did it).

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