Kith's Assault Rework

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, May 17, 2012.

  1. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Does GOTB still Chop him up in Mid-Charge?
  2. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Probly. If he melee reach is longer than the effect of the push/stun. Also, you are still mortal mid charge. I think making the character immortal during charge is overkill, he's beefy enough, thats literally the only scenario where you get cut down mid charge.
  3. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Yeah. I mean charge gives what, +15 Armor? On top of the 15 natural a Protection Assault would have, on top of the armor worn for a possibility of 36 armor?
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    No additional armor during the charge will be needed if it's on the Protection Assault as opposed to the Arms Assault, so it was removed.
  5. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    The MS penalties sound like good ideas, but need to tone them down, because both frenzy and harvester last much longer then concentrated fire. I'd say... 5 and 15 for frenzy, and 5 for Harvester.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I honestly don't want Concentrated Fire to have any. It has enough "pay attention to when you're using this" value as-is with the longer duration than it has a cooldown. I don't mind the slow percentages being 10/10, 15/15, 10/20, whatever. I'd just like for there to be a significant slow so people require thought when using the Assault as opposed to "press buttons, get candy", but not on the T1 that's supposed to be used frequently.
  7. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    2 thoughts:

    1 - charge's damage only really needs to be enough to kill ghouls and parasites. 50/100 should be fine for that, as level 1 will kill parasites and level 2 will kill ghouls (on high sr nm).

    2 - Make harvester give bonuses to concentrated fire and blood frenzy rather than have its own buffs. So for example: While harvester is active, concentrated fire adds an additional 20% crit chance (on top of the 5/10/15%) and blood frenzy adds an additional 30% damage and ministuns last .1 second longer. same cost, duration, and cooldown. No idea if those numbers are decent I'm kinda... out of it at the moment.
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    It does boost both. Blood Frenzy gets an increased crit rate, which means increased stun rate. Concentrated Fire while Harvester is active leads to a 50% as/ms debuff. I'd rather Harvester be its own separate ability so the player can make the choice on what they want to use. Ministuns aren't always appropriate because they break aggro.

    Also, yeah, that's what I was thinking about Charge. That's why I said it was fine, and we'll leave it to testing.
  9. Jercy

    Jercy Well-Known Member

    I like the rework posted in the original post. The only problem I see is that the Arms Assault will run into some huge mana issues when he gets his tier 3, but only time will tell when the players actually get a chance to play him.
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    About your current version of harvester, I thought we agreed on 25% self damage buff because of its massive effects on the other skills too?

    40% self damage as well as 20% crit is IMO way too powerful.

    Think about it:
    50% crit chance = 1.5x damage at all times
    60% bonus from frenzy
    40% from harvester

    =+150% (250%) damage by having only 2 skills active. +150% as on top if 3 skills are active.

    The dps is considerably higher than that of the Ops commando while also stunning/slowing the crap out of everything.

    The damage buffs really need to be toned down considerably.

    My thinking is cap it around the +100% mark with the increased crits.
    That would mean possibly reducing both the Harvester and Frenzy damage buffs while keeping the crits. That way he still does insane damage but isn't a complete killing machine.
  11. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    Just realized Protection won't have a Stun stun, which actually kind of sucks for any sort of kiting or holdout support where you aren't in the position to connect to your target like you need to with Charge. You either need to be away from the team or resign yourself to nothing but Taunting.

    If you can somehow balance two stuns, Cohesion is still useless and can be removed. Or maybe he could have his own Stun in Marine Actions, same stats except CD.
  12. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    With charge, you don't need stun, with a good medic, you can charge and knockback whatever was killing you teammate and taunt.
  13. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Cohesion is anything but useless.
  14. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    The point is that Charge, in essence, is a melee-stun.

    You can't do anything ranged with it. Range being both distance and elevation.
  15. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Elevation is really the only place where Charge is significantly "worse" than the Stun skill it replaces.

    In terms of distance, it is equally good if not better due to the damage dealt and being able to get there into the melee. There is little danger for the Assault in using Charge as he has high armor as a tank.
  16. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    The problem, which I've noticed MSluiter brought up, is that you don't always want to commit to attacking when you're stunning. To compensate with Charge, you not only have to position yourself to match elevation, but also half the range of Charge to get back.

    I doubt for example anyone is going to run down the holdout just to charge at the Parrot and back. Where before all it took was a Stun to keep it at bay.

    In practical terms, that AssTanks job during holdouts changed from "stand in the right spot, taunt and stun" to "stand in the right spot, taunt".

    It's only useful for everyone but yourself. You negate more damage with both your T1's maxed (and is kind of a necessity if you want to not get owned by Frenzy) than you would with Cohesion, and since Stun and SG are priority, you only get Cohesion once you're Lvl 10 and by then it doesn't matter.

    C6 and the Riot Shield will make up the points for you. If you're not already at the stage you can wear RA the whole time.
  17. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    C6 is a recruit mode item. In vet+ it is a chapter 3 drop meaning you most likely won't have it unless it drops at your feet after black ops.

    Taunt duration is shorter than cooldown while cohesion is permanent. It shaves off considerable damage off frenzied queen. Consider 1 taunt 2 cohesion vs 3 taunt 0 cohesion for comparison. It is also invaluable for building up safeguard and keeping energy more available for stun and now charge.

    If you are using RA instead of C4 cohesion becomes even better for high damage creeps.
  18. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Liaison

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    Wrong.

    Cohesion at level 2 provides the same bonus as maxing out Armor Plating and might help your team.
  19. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    Skipping Cohesion before T3 will still negate more damage than skipping levels two and three of Taunt. Simple as. More over, and most importantly, the difference between Level 1 to Level 3 Taunt is a two hit death vs. a four or more hit death from the Queen. Which is huge. It might even keep Frenzy within RA's limit.

    It also complements shields more, which actually matters if you have a decent team and the Medic can afford shielding you. But mostly it actually reduces damage taken from Ere as you cycle between it and Stun, as well as banelings.

    The problem is that when you get Cohesion, it will be after T3, which is an issue because Safeguard already puts you into the untouchable zone of armor reduction so long as you have an actual armor set better than C2.

    You'll probably have both Taunt and Cohesion by the Queen anyway, so Cohesion's effects become negligible under a constantly charged Safeguard. But anything before that, Taunt takes the cake, and should be your go-to after maxing Stun. Even more so when you consider the only instance where you want to Protection tank mobs for a prolonged time before Queen is at Dome A, where you probably already have Safeguard. If you don't, Dome A can be tanked so that only two units are ever within melee space.

    The problem is that you can't go 3 Taunt 1 Plating. You need the Armor points as early as you can get them, and that comes in the form of plating and C2's/C4.

    Towards Tart you're getting Stun.
    Towards Ere you're getting Taunt because Taunt actually works on him.

    There's no space in Easy Company to get Cohesion over anything else, and there really isn't a need to given that Safeguard overlaps Cohesion, and the bosses themselves demand Taunt and Stun cycling rather than passive armor point tanking.

    Anyway, just saying, if you need room for a "ranged-stun" the above is why Cohesion can go. You don't really need it, just not having it makes it boring for Protection during holdouts.
  20. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Like I said, Taunt isn't permanent and costs considerably energy to the extent that you canot have it up constantly or you will have 0 energy. Also, you cannot use if while you got circuit issues.

    If you got RA early in vet+, there is really no reason to max taunt in favor of cohesion because cohesion will be way more bang for buck.

    The other thing is vs slashers, if you don't have cohesion, they will tear through you, even with C4. And if there's a lot of slashers who will hit you during taunt downtimes you are dead. Similarly, you will have issues with surround mob of Hulks, Stalkers and the like where cohesion simply beats Taunt over time, as you can still taunt with cohesion, just with a slightly lower reduction while if you max taunt you have 0 extra armor.

    Vs ere taunt is pretty pointless with RA as he does 25 flat vs RA anyhow.

    And like I said for queen, the cohesion + lvl1 (or even 2 by then) taunt is a lot better for staying power than 3 taunt and no cohesion.

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