How to win friends and influence people

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by FuzzyWumpus, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. FuzzyWumpus

    FuzzyWumpus New Member

    We've all heard new guys come on the forum and complain about more experienced members of the community talking down to them. It encourages new players to quit the game because they perceive the community as rude. I've seen countless people say and do rude things in pubs and in Alpha/Apollo (where vets can be noobs once again).

    What I've found to be so interesting is that when I ask these players if they realize how rude they sounded, they almost always say: "I was just trying to help. I was giving him instruction on how to improve and how to help the team." Typically our vets believe that noobs die because they don't listen...but they don't listen cause they were being treated like a 2nd grader. It is OUR fault for them dying.

    It's clear that you all need a quick lesson on how to win friends and influence people (which is the title of a really good book and you should all read it). For example, when a player is going a direction that will get him killed or might start an event that will kill the team, a vet player might say something like, "ugh, there goes another noob...running off to die". That gives the new player no direction and very little incentive to run back to the fact, he's actually less likely to come back to the team now cause he feels like he has to prove he's good enough to rambo. Instead, vet player might say, "Hey _______, it's safer to stick with the team. There are a lot of traps on this map so it's dangerous to rambo it." There, you've addressed him by name (actually helps. no joke) and encouraged him to come back because you are concerned for his safety. You've told him about a threat he was unprepared for in a way that doesn't make him feel retarded.

    The best way to influence people is to explain what you want them to do in a way that helps them.

    For example, here's a scenario that happens almost every pub with new guys: 37xp rifleman picks up the first C4 armor, 12xp MM picks up the second C4 armor by eggs, leaving (usually me) the tank with no armor for ere. Typical response I see from other players, "Drop the c4 noob, you don't need it". That gives him no reason to drop it...from his perspective, he DOES need +4 armor cause he's getting hit a lot. Furthermore, you've called him a noob, which nobody likes. My preferred tactic is to explain the weight and movespeed system, "Hey ________, in this game, every item has a weight. When you equip heavier items, your character takes on some move speed reductions. It'll make it really hard for you to run from people and keep up with the group. The tank characters aren't affected by the move speed reductions so much, so its better that the tank uses heavy armors and items. Believe me, you'll stay alive longer if you're able to run from zombies rather than trying to tank them with 4 armor." With that approach, I didn't call him a noob or talk down to him and now the new guy knows a little more about the game and probably won't make the same mistake again. This is applicable for any item a noob picks up that doesn't belong to his class, like CB on a medic or the ever classic 80+ magazines.

    I know it takes more time to explain things the right way, but people won't think you're a d-bag if you do it right. Also, if you explain things quickly and rudely, nobody's going to listen anyway, so I would argue that the long way is the only way.

    I'm not gunna call any of our vet players out on this cause it's not just one or two of us, it's all of us (including myself). Try to be nicer, guys. Maybe someday we'll fill up the NOTD2 channel.
  2. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I prefer to explain your example, such as with the C4 as "Generally it's better to make the best at something even better, than to try to take something that is bad and make it barely acceptable." It's the sort of blanket reasoning that no only explains why the Tank needs good armor, but DPS classes need good weapons, etc.
  3. FuzzyWumpus

    FuzzyWumpus New Member

    Just gotta make sure they interpret the "something that is bad" to mean the character and not the player..... when I first read that I kind of interpreted it as you trying to say the player was bad, but then I realized what you were trying to do. I imagine it's a little more specific in games.
  4. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Yeah. Usually something like "That power weapon is better in the hands of the Rifleman who has talents to increase the already high damage it does, than your Medic who has no particular ability to turn it from a barely better than average weapon into a machine of pure carnage and suffering."
  5. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    First of all, i don't play pub for begging. The way you "teaching" sounds more like begging. If newbie run off from team, there are many things to look at. Most likely, 0 xp players usually left behind. NOT RUNNING OFF FROM TEAM away. So probably your way of teaching might work. But not most of times.

    I rather let them soloing if thats what they want. Let them be. If newbie have c4, let them have it. If theres tanker which might be me, then well, kite at the end or something. If newbie takes hits and losing lives, fine let them do it. Theres no need for pre warning.

    Let them feel and explore map/tips, force them to read things on their own. Don't teach them in details this and that. It takes time. Vets are here and there to tell them real pin points. Not EVERYTHING.

    Just play properly. They will try mimic you, eventually.
    Maybe im not good example of being vet in pub games these days. : p
  6. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    fuzzy: while i applaud you on your noble intentions, things don't work out that way. i've been there done that. and typing a sentence like that in-game would very well cost you a life, if not multiple lives. you cannot pause and explain every single little thing, and i don't have mad touch-typing skills. besides, i'm focused on the action. i need to utilize skills, manual reload, look out for threats (such as slashers or devourers) or even random banes depending on SR.

    my three pauses are used at key junctures in the game. i.e. tart, ere and black ops/queen. that's assuming some douchebag doesnt unpause the game (and it sometimes are the newbies, who already can't stand hour-long games) i SOMETIMES attempt to explain mechanics during post-ere airlock wave, but sometimes i can't even do that due to meno's presence.

    i've eventually boiled down to telling them "stick with team, don't get hit, invest all skill points into one tree" right at the start of the game and leave it at that. i would like to watch a replay of you typing nice, complete and POLITE sentences and see how well you fare in the average game.
  7. zander

    zander Member

    I agree with chenz and maniac sometimes u just have to let them try it out themselves but also give a bit of guidance like when I taught my mom how to use an iPhone she wanted to do everything herself but I still had to help her along the way and sometimes even if u explain something to them they mite not listen some people just don't like to listen and they their own way and they will eventually learn their mistakes ( cough cough like my mom when she she didn't even
    noe how to add music to her iPhone even though I taught her she was like I don't care I want to do it myself )
  8. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Its true, FuzzyWumpus.
    Every 3 months a thread like yours pops up.

    Everything that everyone's said so far is also true.
    You either die typing or it falls on deaf ears.
    Personally I would not sit there to listen to you type 2 long sentences and probably can't read it all in one shot anyway.
    And in the end, like Maniac states, the noob simply does what he wants.

    Not everyone's a clever teenager or adult that plays sc2.
    Some of them are either retarded or 8 years old.

    And some of the "vets" you talk about are mostly the 10-30K players.
    Easy as hell to get xp nowadays although in the past, the 10k mark would have made you a vet of some sort so its hard to tell the difference between a vet and a frequent player with mediocre skills and a bad mouth.
  9. KatsuraJun

    KatsuraJun New Member

    I dislike the word noob. It's so condescending it's almost counter-intuitive in a way, because it'd be a damn wonder you got anyone to listen to you after you call them a "noob."

    Personally, I don't bother telling newbies stuff though unless it's something that will be life threatening and definitely kill them. For example, after airlocks open, I'll always see this occasional newbie standing around in the middle of the open. Mind you, I'll admit I'm not always nice about it. If they don't listen after two or three times I might throw a "Get the fuck up here now." But, it's mainly to emphasize the urgency of my statement.

    Other things... there's not much point, from my experience is all. They like to do their own thing most of the time, and sometimes they're just flat out selfish. Hell, I'll admit I was there once - 100 xp Medic that always went 1sl nano and hoarded ammo mods and the cg. Trolololol. But, everyone learns eventually.
  10. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Combat Medic Best Medic!

    About all newbies need to be told is how AV and SL works for newbie medics and pinging paths/holdout spots for everyone else. If there is a 12xp MM (not possible btw :p) or 37xp Rifle picking up C4s before you do, I don't think there's much to do, let them have it. Its not like C4s wouldn't continue being dropped and you can always kite the Queen if you don't feel up to tanking her. There is a lesson to be learnt there for the newbies since they will almost be certain to get overwhelmed at Queen if they get that far.

    On the other hand, if there's a 5k xp recon picking up the C4, feel free to yell at him to drop it in the most rage-worthy manner possible.
  11. TheSilenced

    TheSilenced New Member

    Some of us learn the hard way that people dont like to be given the "kind treatment" over the net because they are simply unable to appreciate help when it is given...I once did actively TRY to help noobs like teelling then not to go hybrids or to give certain chainguns to survival roflmen (ye olde days) BUT NOW *fast forwards to present* noobs *despite not being called noobs* wander the map, use leaver units to tk 3 roflmen turn round and tk the recon-me- actively attempting to sabotage team by any possible means item whoreing depleting tank lives and simply being arseholes by shooting you and there are rarely instances you can vote kick such menaces , I'M SICK OF THESE FU-ehem I'm simply tired of trying to help people who do NOT want to be helped.
  12. AngelSephy

    AngelSephy New Member

    We cannot differentiate whether the lines typed was rude or neutral, excluding the rude words, when there are only words on screen and no tone of sound heard.
    I once try to each a newbie on how to play, without any harsh words, and he expect that i am being impolite therefore his reply is discourteous. Eventually he continues plays noob-ly throughout the game
  13. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    just use smiley faces. every time I have success with teaching newbies it's with smileys. Really who can say no? :D:D:D:D
  14. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Communists, that's who! :D
  15. Lightning
    • Donator

    Lightning Member

    yeah last game u just yell at us for getting away from ur march of the machines tech, if u take the proper time to tell us why then u can say stuff like this. PS i did move away
  16. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    Aha ofc. u r 30k player. and That was vet game, and everyone else was above 20 or 30k. So AM I EXPECTING SO MUCH? maybe i shouldve paused game and give lecture about it. getting 40 hits as mm in recruit mode. i shouldve known ur level. Sorry. i didn't know you were that bad.[hr]
    Maybe im expecting way too much from 30k players these days. [hr]
    I'm not dare to pause freaking whole game to explain this and that to 30k exp players. cuz i respect their experience level and im expecting they perform what they suppose to do. if u were 2k or under 10k i would but, srsly.
  17. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    I hate to say it but the amount of experience a player has does not necessarily reflect their skill or knowledge. There are plenty of player on the NA server with more experience than players like myself, Shooz,ect. However, many of them lack knowledge and skills to play at a high level because most of them just play blindly or just farm pub ec without taking the time to experiment and learn new things.

    There's been many times when I played with players that had a significant amount of experience points but did many things that reflected the skills of someone with very little knowledge. You can go and rage all you want at these players, but regardless its a fact of the matter.
  18. AngelSephy

    AngelSephy New Member

    Putting the exp numbers aside , if u think you are that good of a player, either you really are good or not it doenst matter. teach it in a proper manner and i dont mean by begging , it will be more acceptable no matter you think how bad is the others.
    So far i dont see any objection on pausing the game for a short lesson, ppl will actually appreciate it
  19. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    It's actually really hard to gain some of these experiences.

    Most of the time I end up in pubs, and you generally get stuck with the same 8 classes. In addition, there's not only lots of room for mistakes, you can generally do what you want and still come out winning as long as your team isn't too lousy and you know what you're doing.

    That said, some things like how to use FO, how to effectively use PO or even flame tank is not an open option to pubbers. (learnt that the hard way when trying to micro my opsmando while controlling leaver PO. pushed tank into swarm of mobs. rest is history) so many people end up NOT learning the core skills required for some of these specialised classes (i still have no idea how to use the aforementioned classes)

    sometimes it's their fault for not listening to advice, but more often than so they just don't get the opportunity to learn some of these tricks.
  20. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Please refer to the last part of my post on page 1 on: "Vets who suck"
    "And some of the "vets" you talk about are mostly the 10-30K players.
    Easy as hell to get xp nowadays although in the past, the 10k mark would have made you a vet of some sort so its hard to tell the difference between a vet and a frequent player with mediocre skills and a bad mouth."

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