Hope for the future (NOTD 2)

Discussion in 'NOTD 2 Discussion' started by Kith, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Couple of folks have been asking me what my plans are regarding NOTD 2. The bottom line is that I haven't been hired to work on NOTD 2. I've made the offer, of course, but the big man said that's only gonna happen if he gets some more teammates to work on the map. As I'm sure everyone's noticed the slowdown ever since Ear's departure, Ability is only one guy with a very busy schedule (and if you know someone capable/trustworthy enough to help, ask them about working on NOTD). That really hasn't completely deterred me from working on some stuff on the side, though, so have a preview of what I'd like to see happen (and therefore what I've been working on):

    • Variant Tier 3s: To add new dimensions to the classes, players will be able to choose between two final abilities at the end of the tree instead of just one.
    • Jumping: With terrain designed around it.
    • The Gravity Gun: With mechanics and items geared towards its presence.
    • Giving the Commando an actual innate: Yep.
    • Performance-based chapters: The better you play, the harder it gets, the higher the rewards.
    • Randomized missions: At least 4 to 5 per chapter, with one granting the potential for the Gravity Gun to be upgraded to grab small to medium enemies and teammates.
    • mert: Lots.
    • Randomized bosses: Which are based on the missions played prior.
    • More enemy variation: Who likes robots?
    • A new Survival mode: Featuring unique bosses.
    • New toys in the Credit Shop: Shinies for the faithful!

    So, yeah. Discuss, ask questions, have at it. Let's do some theorycraft.
  2. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    Only thing I really have to say is that I hope things work out for the better in regards to Ability. He does have a lot on his plate currently.
    Hopefully, he will hire a well suited team to develop NOTD 2.

    As for some things I would like to look for in NOTD 2:

    - More weapons specifically ones that do melee damage currently all we have is a freaking crowbar and knife

    - More Risks vs Rewards scenario
    - Ex. An item that you must hold for an entire game, which takes up on inventory spot, but if you beat the game with said item in your inventory without ever dropping it you get a reward for doing so. This can be anything from more XP or more Credits.

    - Bosses that require more team work and variation of tactics to beat

    - More life time mods and customization options. Ex New skins for various classes. There should be more rewards for dedicating yourself to this game. Currently all we really have is new Skins for your Kitty, Colors, Black Ops Insignia, and Weapon Mods.
  3. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I don't really think we need more melee weapons, but hey they're coming anyways. Look for a Fusion Cutter and maybe even a sledgehammer or a chainsaw.

    You'll get a Gnome Chompski, don't worry.

    Neato bosses are a favorite of mine and therefore a given.

    "More lifetime stuff" is filed under new credit shop goodies.
  4. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Alrighty, since my brain is shot from finishing a coding assignment (6 hours later...), time to play Devil's advocate for a moment:

    Variant T3's: Add spice and flexability, as well as gameplay flow. The only question is, do we got room for them? The standard command card ain't changing in HotS, so is there room, both in the editor and on the command card, to add 2 abilities to every class. Furthermore, (and I'm assuming Kith will take a whack at this) what abilities can we add that are not total crap, OP as hell, and mechanically different from any other ability. I've been discussing good skills vs dead skills with people over on D3 forums, and one thing that I realized from analyzing D2 skills is that making a skill mechanically progressive (Skill B is Skill A + other stuff) automatically consigns skill A to being useless. Thus to have good skills, each much be mechanically unique. Although some classes we could add a alternative T3 that still fits in with the class, others may be far trickier.

    Jumping: Ok, cool idea and does add gameplay elements, but from where I'm sitting, in order to balance the terrain around it means you can never include any complicated pathing structures, you either do flat open areas or absolute dead ends. Like if you wanted NotD fort in such an environment, the fort would have to back up to the map edge. I guess we could pretty the map up with tons of doodads, but that seems more cosmetic then actual gameplay.

    Gravity Gun: Same as jumping, the main thing to balance this thing is to have absolutely no area of the map that is both pathable, but not reachable by walking.

    Mando Passive: Yeah he could use one, right now he's either Mr. Utility or Mr Big Gun with nukes in pocket. Technically the Opcomm has a passive (Surge/Adren combo), some classes could use some more of this to reward good play.

    Performance Based Chapters: So the game checks the SQ at every chapter and readjusts accordingly. Would have to make it so rating can swing a bit more, right now it is effectively capped on gain, most I've ever seen is around 25, whereas you can lose... a ton(I think the record is like 100+?).

    Randomized Missions: Cool stuff, more to do, gotta make it worth it. As is, Speed is king, in terms of both rewards and efficiency. Got to make doing a 2-3 side missions worth dropping speed (and no ingame bonus of weapons or grav guns or ammo is going to mean jack, skilled teams will just roll without said bonus stuff and win anyhow, see my normal EC NM run where seth is skipped entirely). You need to be handing out the rewards of at least 1/3 of a speed run to justify doing them. That or rework the pacing such that doing speed means you can do 1/2 side missions, but giving up speed means getting them all (and all of them >>> speed bonus), or make it such that doing more then a couple side missions makes speed MUCH easier. Or just make speed less worth it.

    mert: ??? Ehh???

    Randomized Bosses: Cool stuff, just make sure that each path of bosses is relatively close in difficulty. Any one boss being much harder then others just means people will see him and instantly remake to save the trouble (people choose the path of least resistance, always). Also the usual stuff about no fake difficulty, no cheap shots, etc. apply.

    More Enemy Variation: Would like, though one thing that would go a long way to spice things up is to make the enemy waves themselves more dynamic. As it stands, the enemy composition is mostly dictated by being recruit vs normal vs NM. Most of the time NM allows certain waves to be different and heavier, and SQ doesn't change a thing. Also NM just sets a new baseline for SQ to adjust in terms of mob density. The 2 places where mobs vary is Apollo Comm towers (Infested vs Seekers) and Airlock (Agrons mostly, Seekers sometimes). Having every mob had some variation and then have SQ affect composition would add a lot to the combat dynamic.

    Survival Mode: Sure, I see survival as the mode where anything goes, where we can add stupid crap to be tested and see how cheap it is, and where zany team compositions can go toe to toe with possibly unfair crap.

    New credit shop toys: Sure, though keep it mostly to the cosmetic, weapon mods already provide tons of power, hate to see how out of whack things get if anything else were added to increase player power. Maybe add rating or karma dependent things you can buy? Or maybe team composition dependent stuff, like you want to roll 2 of the same class, same tree, buy something that alters that dynamic?

    Ok stream of thought over.
  5. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    In response to Arcane:

    Variant T3s:
    Yeah, we have the space. So far I've cooked up variants for the Rifleman, Medic, Assault, Recon, Marksman, Demolitions, Engineer, and a handful of others for the other classes.

    Not if you do it right (example: NOTD:AM and UA3).

    Gravity Gun:
    While this is more of a valid concern given the circumstances, again, not an issue if done right (which it will be).

    Commando Passive:
    I actually intend to keep it as a solely NOTD2 thing, for reasons that may or may not relate to jumping.

    Performance Based Chapters:
    Nosir. This is based on the completion of assigned missions and performance bonuses granted as a result. Rating will affect spawns in general.

    Randomized Missions:
    Screw Speed. That's really all I have to say on the matter. Trust me, you're not going to want to abandon your objectives. The missions will matter.


    Randomized Bosses:
    Yup. I know. Most of it will be playing with resistances and unit types while having similar patterns. Not always the same, just similar.

    Enemy Variation:
    Yep. There's a new "enemy wave" function in the SCII editor, at least as far as I'm aware. But I'm looking to add entirely new enemy types with new and unique resistances/immunities in addition to refining the enemy group effectiveness.

    Survival Mode:
    I'll be sure to steer clear of "unfair crap", although the bossfights definitely won't be easy. All I have to say on that matter is "Black Ops".

    Credit Shop:
    Man, all I was thinking of was more doodads and personal upgrades. Nothing -too- overly complicated.
  6. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    I'm looking forward to seeing these things should Ability find the team he needs. As always, he and Kithrixx know I will be here in support of their efforts should they decide to move in the direction of NOTD 2.
  7. Mirage
    • Donator

    Mirage ಠ_ಠ What are you looking at?

    I was originally going to offer if I ever figured out the editor.

    But god help me, its just so flipping complicated. (That and college eats time... A lot of time)

    If I remember right there was actually hints at NOTD2 possibly being a standalone game, but I don't know if that idea actually went anywhere.
  8. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Yeah... one of the difficulties for people working on any SC2 map is that Blizzard went colossal overkill, people went the equivalent of a nice text editor like Notepad++ (WC3) to Visual Studio (SC2). There is enough stuff in the editor for a complete and total pro job, think it even has version control or maybe not. Anyhow, yeah, its a complicated beast, almost better off just learning one module and only one.
  9. Mirage
    • Donator

    Mirage ಠ_ಠ What are you looking at?

    Hey, I can understand Visual Studio.. (All Variants) But the SC2 editor.. Is like Editorception.
  10. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Yeah, a better analogy would be Visual Studio and then put in every addon for every MS framework and SQL server and then learn them all. *Mind Explodes*. Although, you could skip all that and still do raw scripting, but now you get to learn the entire SC2 API... have fun?
  11. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    2 things I'd love to see

    1. Agron mounted Infested Marines
    Or special Infested Marines such as Infested Officers whom are alot tougher than the standard fodder and provide players with a huge challenge as soon as they appear. They would go about climbing onto an Agron riding on its back getting increased sight radius and weapon range and can shoot while the Agron is on the move.

    2. More focus on class uniqueness
    Each class has that one thing that makes them special and sets them apart from the rest, its a focus on class lore and bringing more of it to the game such as...
    For the Rifleman it is his Powered Armor
    For the Medic it is her use of Nanotechnology
    For the Assault it is his enormousness strength
    For the Demolitions it is his violent and psychotic nature and so on.

    Lets say you picked a Rifleman, you will be able to alter some of the suits priorities such as swapping a fast energy regeneration for increased movespeed or better shield regeneration. As you play and rank up more options become available to you. A way to customize your own class to better suit you. Give players customization, players love customization.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I've got something less infested planned for 1. As for 2, that sounds an awful lot like traits!
  13. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Why I want Infested Riders is because well... Where do you see this kind of thing? Any other game where a zombie rides an even larger zombie. You just do not see that. This also puts across the idea that the infestation does not just merely dumb down everything that it infects and keeps the intelligence in some units such as military officers who are strategic masters.

    As for for option 2 only the Rifleman is going to have something similar to the traits.

    For example, the Assault who has massive strength will deal more melee damage than any other class and can work around that either increasing that damage, gaining a stun or a knockback. He can also charge through enemies when he has Sprint active which allows him to get through packed mobs easily as he steamrolls on through.

    The Demolitions for instance, being psychotic in nature gets a boost from a killing spree or certain %health situations such as if he kills 10 creeps he deals more damage or if he is below a certain percentage of health or if he is attacking a target below or above a certain point a bonus comes in.

    The Marksman, the sharpshooter will be able to headshot and the result of the headshot is up to players to customize.

    The unique trait of each class is something which will not be found on another class, it may be similar in a few ways but the end result is very different. A totally new innate for each class, a system if you will which gets better as you rank up which makes sense.
  14. Zuriel

    Zuriel Well-Known Member

    Ambient music that reflects the pace of the game.

    Ie. When there are a lot of spawns, the music changes to something fast paced and exciting. This really ups the entire feel of the game.
  15. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Music in general would be nice. We can really surprise players again by adding "Terran Up The Night" as the victory music. Everyone loved it and asked what happened to it when it got removed for some reason. (Maybe the sound internal error that caused the game to lag/crash/desync players)

    Thankfully HotS will come fresh with a whole new music bundle of options to choose from.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    So I've been looking into the whole "NOTD2 Legacy Bonuses" thing.

    I've come to the conclusion that NOTD should not port over experience to the sequel. however, that isn't to say that Veterans of the first game should lose out. That said, so far the rewards that I'm looking at are as follows:

    Rating maintained
    Custom Colors maintained
    Kittens maintained
    Black Ops insignia maintained
    Weapon Mods maintained
    For every level of Medal, grant 1,000 experience

    The idea is that the game will check and apply these bonuses only if the player is starting with 0 experience and has a previous NOTD bank, so the bonuses don't apply multiple times.
  17. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    I think it's silly and has no place in this game. But that's just my opinion.

  18. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    Isn't Titan in a way like that? The Immortals only come out after Titan dies after all.
  19. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    is MoH getting thrown in with the rest of the medals?
  20. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    The problem is, if someone has localvoid bank then he/she will start off with a lot of undeserved experience, plus it's harder to keep track on the Community Watch, if no one knows you on the forum then you're more likely to be placed on The Brig than someone who played with many of the veteran players.

    Also, game average will show very odd amounts for everyone who has a Night of the Dead bank file with medals.

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