Gunship nerf. QQ

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by squish, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    I really don't like the way the dev team nerfed the gunship so horribly. i preferred the gauss cannon the way it was tbh. i liked .2 attack speed @ 20 damage better than 1.5 @ 80. more dps the old way. for an ultimate, this ability just got cheesed hard. either reduce the nrg cost & cooldown, or return it back the old way.. those are the only 2 options i see. cuz even explodemo satchel is way better than gunship now. ~endrant.
  2. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Q is the gunships best weapon.
  3. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The super spam of the old gunship was a decision made to fix the issue of a million shots lagging the shit out of people. If you think that the damage per shot should be increased, then suggest that. Once again, bitching about how "it was changed and therefore sucks now" will get you nowhere.

    Maybe I should just make that into my signature. It'd save time, considering how much I have to repeat myself...

    Anyways.

    The lowered fire rate is to make you actually think of where you're going to place your shots as opposed to getting an autoclicker and destroying all that stands before you. I'll use this thread as a source of additional feedback to determine what others think of the Gunship's rebalancing. If there's enough of an opinion, then we'll make changes.
  4. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    On a more constructive note...

    I believe the damage per shot should indeed be raised. The current change has lowered the effective DPS of the Gauss Cannon (left click) to the point that even if you perfectly fire the cannon on every cooldown (more or less impossible) and perfectly hit targets, you will be only able to kill an agron or 2 at most on NM or maybe kill a couple Devourers, or destroy a medium sized mob of zombies. If you are not perfect with its use, the overall dps of the Gauss is more or less nothing. Coupled with the lowered DPS of the Missiles, a average gunship on paper will barely dent any sized mob with more then 3-4 agrons in it. Compared to similar T3 (Nuclear Missile and Armageddon and Napalm), it feels underwhelming.
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Quickly Theory Standpoint buffing:

    Gauss Cannon: 140 @ 1.5, 3 radius
    Hellfire Missiles: 4 x 90 @ 2.8, 6 radius (Some Overlapping damage, but its focus is AoE Destruction)
    Terminator: 600 @ 4, 2 radius

    Hellfire fires four missiles with overlapping damage, and decimates a wide area. Terminator devastates a Single Target, and Gauss Cannon is the in-between.

    Personally, I think this battle cruiser needs a Yamato Cannon.
  6. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    My feeling is that the Gunship is kinda stuck between two standards. Mob destruction and high profile target destruction. It is... kinda okay at both roles. But I think it would be nice if the gunship itself was a bit more specialized on one role or another without particularly rewarding people with click Macros necessarily.

    Considering the nature of Alpha Company itself, and no attempt to rationalize it for Easy Company or Apollo Security Team, I'd like a better Anti-Mob focus. We could do this with increasing Area of Effect necessarily or fire rate. But I see no particular reason to go down that path necessarily. Breaking out of the mindset that the Gunship needs to be more or less based on what it was in the past.

    So you could get something like:

    Left click a start location, right click an end location. Gunship strafes in a straight line between the two points moving it's targeted attack spot at 3 move speed. Strafe deals 75 damage in a 2 radius AoE every .1 seconds. Cannot lay another strafing line down until the current one is finished.

    Considering that Alpha Company is a lot of hold outs with limited paths for the enemies to come at you from that could be used to really put some hurt down. Rewards planning over spam click micro necessarily.
  7. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    DH3

    Kudos for being 3 steps above name calling but you still aren't making an argument.
  8. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    At the risk of bringing down the wrath of Shooz, what did I rate?
  9. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    You're a big boy, look at the food pyramid. =P

    Your point is very valid, though, Arcane. Gunship has always felt underwhelming to me and I've always viewed the Air Superiority tree as being upside-down. The talent progression of that tree is anything but progression as most of the DPS, power, and utility comes from the tier 1 skills.
  10. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    I actually have my misgivings that we are starting from the standpoint of "we must fix skills so that people who have click macros don't benefit". you're not supposed to use such programs, period. what if i made a macro on the ladder that allowed me to make probes/scvs at regular intervals? i'd think i'd be headed for a ban pretty quick.

    on the issue of the gunship, i haven't used FO yet (don't intend to in the near and foreseeable future, either) but i feel that if the left tree is restricted by a set number of shells for the whole game (which i find kind of silly tbh, it's not like we limit opsmandos to a set number of nukes) then there should be an equal restriction on the right tree, like a limited number of shots from the gunship. that way you fix the problem of click macros yet preserving the DPS at the same time.
  11. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    This, I like. Sort of like a Hyperion run maybe, similar to that of the campaign? With the gauss batteries on automated, and hellfire missiles on maybe a one second cooldown, and the terminator? cannon set to where you have to enter it manually when you lay down the strafing line? or maybe, you could plot the whole thing out, with 6-12 hellfire missiles, a maximum strafing line approximately that of an airstrike, maybe 1.5x that, because, let's face it, unless you terribad your grafx settings, your framerate is typically going to be <10, and even with a click macro on a gauss cannon with a 0.01 atk speed, the accuracy can still be scheisse... and therefor, no mobs will even be hit. and, you would be able to pick and choose between laser guided hellfires, and plotted ones, with laser guided coming down on an area with 5+ mobs, or high threat priority mob in the area of effect... laser guided would deal say... -15% compared to plotted, due to the guidance system taking up room for what would otherwise be ordnance to go boom. I personally believe the energy cost for this could be changed, 65 is sort of high for an ultimate, nuke being the moab, so to speak, at 50 energy, charge @ 20, TTD @ 25,i understand that they have different roles, but if we're just going to leave it as is, the energy cost should be reduced to something along the lines of 30-45, and the cooldown also reduced in a similar frame to a 20 second wait after the circling is done & over??

    my calculations of DPS for the gauss both before and now (for those who may be poor at math, i'll put it to a 3 second scale for the gauss cannon)
    20 damage per shot, at .2 attack speed is 100 damage every second, or 300 every 3 seconds for 30 seconds, being a total of 3000 damage. not counting hellfires.
    80 damage per shot, at 1.5 fire speed, is 160 every 3 seconds, for 30 seconds is 1600. with this nerf in attack speed, we've almost halved the over possible damage of one weapon of the gunship... and that's assuming you even hit anything with the terrible framerate you get in it. the whole circling with the camera thing is cool and all, but it does reduce framerate drastically, thereby lowering possible accuracy overall.
    for the hellfire, 160 every 2 seconds, is 480 every 6 seconds, for a grand total of 2400 damage,
    with 200 every 3, is 400 every six seconds, for a grand total of 2000 damage,
    assuming you don't use laser guided, missing would be possible, thereby reducing the possible overall damage. coupling with the gauss, the overall damage potential of the gunship would be 5400 damage, assuming 100% accuracy on both before the nerf, and now it is a grand total of 3600 damage per gunship with 100% accuracy
    tl;dr
    grand total numbers assuming 100% accuracy over the total time:
    PREPATCH:
    Gauss:3000
    Hellfire:2400
    Total:5400
    NOW:
    Gauss:1600
    Hellfire:2000
    Total:3600
  12. Lightning
    • Donator

    Lightning Member

    i agree with blaqks on the effectiveness of the air superiority tree of forward observer. The fact that the whole tree is based on summoning infantry from no where, we can make the ultimate of forward observer into another air type related weapon. Now back to the gunship, the lower of the gauss cooldown is a must in my opinion. Due to the fact gunship cooldown is still the same, increasing cooldown of the weapons is basically nerfing. Since gunship cant attack during cooldown, the whole skill is being nerf -.-
  13. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    To be clear, if the Strafe idea was used, it'd either need to be a standalone, no Hellfires or Terminators, or the damage I listed on it would need to be cut down necessarily.

    If Hellfires and Terminators are eliminated from it in order to use the Strafe option, I'd like to see what happens if you allow a player to use two strafes at once. But I wouldn't suggest going over that. Still would be a very powerful ability. Think that you wouldn't have the Gunship before Cromo necessarily, or much before that. You get to decimate the hallway outside the Laboratory during the Lab Rats hold out. Slice apart the slow moving hordes coming at you after you find Tanaka. Just rip down the counterattack after using the toxin, and chewing up the attack wave before Perses fairly well based on what location you are fighting at. Less useful during IVAX and Perses, but the nature of those fights generally makes losing control over your marine in order to gunship a Bad Idea(r) anyway.
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    There's actually a FO rework in traction currently, so don't worry about the trees being unbalanced. Let's get the Gunship balanced before we get into anything else (as the Gunship will be preserved when the rework is completed).
  15. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    I still think giving a limited number of shots for the gunship would make it more "skill-based" rather than pure spamming.

    but kith, could we put on hold all the developments for a bit? New developments is nice, but i'd really like to see that banlist out first.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Not my department. My role is specifically "make plans for concept and balance development". My designs are not taking priority over anything, I'm just offering them up as I come up with them. It's Ability's decision on what comes first.
  17. TheSilenced

    TheSilenced New Member

    actually considering its a gunship wouldnt it have MORE then one gauss cannon? perhaps adding an additional attack to gauss cannon reducing the damage (SLIGHTLY!) would be a better bet...but personally i cant use gunship on a mac...it makes it spew molten aluminum
  18. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Human ingenuity: Duct-tape as many guns onto one thing The only thing you should see when you see a ship, is all of its guns.
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    [​IMG]

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