Ghouls and Ghosts

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Kith, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    So, spoke with Peer about some stuff. Specifically, the sheer amount of filesize that ghouls require with textures, sounds, animations, and models.

    To that end, I'd like to propose we replace the Ghoul with something else. Functionally identical, but utilizing resources we already have to cut down on filesize.

    We could go for infested colonists, which are just colonists using the infested texture. Perfect for the "light zombie" role that the ghouls currently fill, as they are not as bulky and mutated as the standard zombies are.

    Alternately, we could go for Changelings, who crawl just as Ghouls do and feature bodies mostly made out of non-solid mass which contributes to their fragile nature.

    Another option is just using reskinned zerglings as Hounds or something similar.

    The amount of filesize that Ghouls use is just insane, and I think we should explore replacing them.
  2. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I don't know that infested colonists would be that fast, and I don't think there would be that many hounds at a mining colony. I'd probably suggest either simply replacing the ghoul model with the changeling or adding a combination of the different ideas.
  3. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    You know, when I first played and I saw a ghoul my thoughts were "...I don't remember this..." then "Oh, they look like those little fucks from Diablo 2" followed by "That's a weird character for Blizzard to have buried somewhere in this game." Wasn't until later that I realized they were some customized thing hand crafted by the ancient masters of NOTD.

    I mean they DO have a plus side, in that you don't see anything like them in game, anywhere, on any map I've ever played. So they instantly stand out as unique. And due to how the game goes, are usually the first enemy a new player sees. It provides interest and a hook. I mean in other custom maps. YOu see something like a Zergling skinned enemy right off the bat, you enter the "StarCraft" mindset and instantly have a pretty good feeling (And usually right) about what that unit represents and does. And for the most part that's still true with other units. Gargoyles, light, easily taken out generally, flying asshats. Agrons? Slow, hurt a lot. Infested Marines, high DPS and range (Standard Infested Marine range or there abouts it seems) and slow move speed. This is good for helping people get into the game to start. As a newbie can just look at stuff and KNOW some shit is bad, or what it will likely do. You shouldn't ever have to (And rare I do, it's not even for Newbies so much as just plain Goobers), tell them NOT to face tank Agrons. Ghouls though are the one "The fuck is that?!" unit that NOTD kinda has. If they get replaced, fine enough. Though I think we need another unique looking "WTF IS THAT?!" unit so we can maintain the same effect.
  4. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I agree, however we are trying to optimize the map to something more sane. However in the future, specifically HotS, we can custom create our own models that probably would be better accommodated by SC2, or more importantly we can manipulate the existing SC2 models more effectively. That would probably be the best time to approach that and if we are lucky and find someone good with 3DStudioMax, we could redo a fair number of models (no offense you Peer, your models are great, you could make them insane in HotS :D).
  5. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Do you guys at NA have access to a custom map called Dead Rising?
  6. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Its called Rising Dead and its a silly notd clone.

    Anyway, I quite like ghouls. It makes NOTD different from many other custom maps. If HotS allows without too many resource requirements, having unique looks on creatures is a plus.
  7. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Lol, whoops :blush: yeah, Rising Dead. The old age is creeping in on me... :p Well despite it being a "NOTD ripoff" it does make use of infested texture on colonist models and uses Ghouls and the sort as well, check it out to get an idea.

    Well like its said, the Ghoul does chow map resources and if it could be replaced with something within SC2 then kudos. I also like the Ghoul but it would be interesting to see what would replace it.
  8. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    With HotS, Blizzard is releasing the plugins that they use/used with 3d Studio Max to make all the models we currently see in the game.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Complete custom models are great and all, but the bottom line is that they make NOTD bloat like a whale with an eating disorder. If we were to import the custom team-colorable Tychus? That wouldn't take nearly as much size because that's a single model and nothing else. All of the other resources can be found within the game files.

    Ghouls, on the other hand, are a model (who is way more hi-res than anything else in SCII), texture, soundset, and animation. I get that it's a unique visual and all that, but I'd really rather we cut down on filesize for the time being.
  10. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    I'm ok with the changeling replacing the ghouls. Infested colonists don't quite look threateningly quick. And lings are the traditional fodder unit for SC2 and don't come across as "an issue that must be dealt with fast".

    There's functionally scary/alert inducing, and there's visually panic inducing and in my experience (and from watching various horror flicks),
    creepy crawling as a means to move is the way to go with swift baddies.

    That said, how about Bob's old little friends? Or Lava crabs even?
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Maybe on the little friends. We could pass it off as the parasites that cause the infection. However, definitely not the lava crabs. They glow pretty brightly, and that's a bit off-putting.
  12. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I'd go for the Little Friends myself. Maybe as another thought/option is using a Scourge, and having it be a ground level hovering flier (Hittable by ground only attacks). We don't use that model either, and it's not THAT popular in custom map mods that I've seen. And when it is used it's used as a suicide air unit only. It's winged menace thing that come off as a low level, quick flier. Oddly they remind me of those parasites from the first season of Star Trek (The Original Series) that were hanging around, diving and flying onto people to suck the life out of them. And that's not a bad thing in my book.
  13. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    Anyone got a picture of Bob's Little Friends so I can see what they look like? By the time I played my first apollo game, Bob got replaced and before that, Bob was a rare sight in pub games and so I never actually got to see the Little Friends.
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I don't, unfortunately, and my searches yield little. They resemble small, ground-based Corruptors.

    I'm personally leaning towards Changelings. Their crawling walk cycle and "melted" lower half works really well for the concept of a fast moving, light enemy.
  15. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    What I though it was... remember Zero Hour from Wings of Liberty's storyline? When one of those MEATeorites would fall and spawn Zerg? The little chunks that fragmented from that MEATeorite. Least that's what I thought was the basis of Bob's Little Friends.
  16. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    So I had a look around the Starcraft Wiki and your description brings me to the Feederling unit in the SC2 campaign. I assume the Little Friends look a little something like this then:

    [​IMG]

    I like the idea, but like Kith, I prefer using the changeling model because of the concept of a nimble enemy.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yes, that's what it was. For whatever reason I thought their name started with a C.
  18. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    In number they look something like this

    [​IMG]

    But you know...
    What wouldn't be a bad idea is a Bloated Parasite. When they die they give off a minor blast that damages in an area. The not to knife enemy.

    And here is an example of the Changeling Model en masse

    [​IMG]
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Deeeeefinitely a fan of Changelings, then. Feederlings can easily be reserved for a new enemy in NOTD2 as, like Reaper suggested, a stage between Parasites and Banelings. Helll, we could even have enemies follow a progression:
    Parasite > "bloated para" > Baneling/Blindling > Beastling > Tartarus
  20. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Hows about this?

    [​IMG]

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