Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ability, Mar 31, 2012.
Do you feel either of the GGs need a new name? If yes, please suggest. Thanks.
There's plenty of other shorthand to be had. Gnade, for instance.
Honestly, I'd like to see the Gravity Gun removed from NOTD. There's so much potential for cheese, and it's also frustrating to see something like the Psi Ops' Force Push made into a weapon that anyone can wield.
I will say that I don't think it needs a new name. As I pointed out earlier in a topic, I can't really foresee any situation in game where someone would call out "GG" and anyone would necessarily be confused. Not like someone will find a Gravity Gun, call out "GG" and ping, and the Commando will automatically throw a Gravity Grenade at that location. Least I cannot foresee such a thing.
I like Gravity Grenade. I feel the other names suggested for it like Vortex Grenade propose something that it isn't. That it creates some hole or point in which things are vanished or crushed. Similarly why I'd avoid any terms like "Singularity" being used around it.
The Black Hole, being a Hades ability, does crush marines like a bug. And I would like that we avoid terms that would be reminiscent of any sort of crushing death related to black holes, wormholes, and other such phenomenon.
If one must be changed, let it be the Gravity Gun. First off, nothing about it really feels like a "Gravity" effect. It picks up and throws stuff, or carries it around. It has the weaker claim to the name.
Admittedly part of me just wants to call it the Sagev Device, so I will never forgot the asshat who is responsible for my hatred of the gravity gun and need to typically hide it or horde it away from the rest of my team. That was about a solid month of games ruined by him.
But for a more serious name I'd go for something like: Stasis Field Manipulator. No need for Gun/Rifle or such a moniker with it. The name aptly describes what happens to people who are picked up by it. It sounds techy enough that people will instantly grasp it's not really a weapon but a gimmick device.
Also, don't forget the "official" name of the Gravity Gun from the Half Life series:
The Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator
You can always use that if you're out of names.
I think this isn't an issue.
Keep Gravity gun
Rename gravity grenade into Singularity Core/ Singularity bomb
Gravity Grenade isn't supposed to create a singularity, it's just supposed to pull things towards it, so it can't be a "Singularity [x]", and it can't be a bomb because it doesn't actually explode. It's just a device that generates a strong gravitational field and then goes inert. Neither of those are appropriate.
The Gravity Gun being renamed or removed is something I'm more a fan of than anything else. It does have its uses, but I feel it really infringes on one of the Psi Ops' major attractions: The fact that she can control mob flow by pushing them in different directions. To me, it feels like one of the major high points of the Psi Ops is "being able to knock shit around without having to find a gravity gun". The grabbing mechanic can lead to so many different kinds of cheese, and I just don't like it. The Gravity Gun has about as much place in NOTD as does a battle axe, we've just grown complacent because of its extended stay.
Miniature singularities don't need to pull everything in.. It isn't a full on black hole, try playing mass effect on.. I think its adept?
Also what else could create a sucking force towards a central point?
I believe Kith, I made all of those arguments, and the old abilities for it to TK and generally be a complete douchebag with, from the very early days of the Gravity Gun. I also recall being in good company in that opinion at the time, as you were hard pressed to find people who liked it. Other than people who were enamored with some of the then cheeses, like Invincible Egg Walls or their ability to Karmabite Immune TK with it. It was, as I recall it, pretty much Ability alone saying it was going to stay by force of will and because he wanted a unique gimmick for NOTD (Unique by completely ripping off a very popular PC game's marquee item... but enough of that).
It's become more acceptable as time went on. And the Gravity Gun has found it's following. I do believe you have a valid point however. We already eliminated it from newbie mode, and while there was some grumbling from people at the time which amounted to "I need the Gravity Gun so I can save newbies from the stupidity of standing in red dots!" and the less directly said, but probably real reason "I want it because it effectively makes me immune to mobs who are coming from one direction only", such as Domes or when you were camping a hard location like North Airlock Wall, Muta Spot, etc. But still, it wasn't something that I hear people grumble about. By about a week after it was removed from Newbie Mode I wasn't seeing any complaints at all about the lack of a Gravity Gun in it.
Now Augmented Legs... Bitching about that went on for about a month. But I digress.
The Gravity Gun might be a neat idea. But it doesn't fit NOTD gameplay very well. It breaks things apart and circumvents a lot of NOTD design. Almost every cheesy exploit that players have come up with over the years that you'd had to quash have had the Gravity Gun involved in it. And thinking about it right now, I can't but wonder what NOTD would look like if the Gravity Gun was removed and a lot of the stuff removed for reasons of Cheesing various modes was therefore allowed to remain. Like recently the Pathfinder's ability to use Assault Jumps to traverse elevation. Without the Gravity Gun, it wouldn't have been a problem.
Gravity Gun --> Kinetic Catapult / Limited Momentum Manipulation(Alteration) Device
It is unable to pick up most things with an Electrical Field (Shielding) around them, especially when it comes to those that Human lives rely on due to the Rare occasions where it can greatly damage both the Shielding Device, and the Manipulation device (Causes Short Circuit for both players, instantaneous dropping, and both players lose 35 energy & shields). The Shielding Devices of machines however, being structurally different in design, do not have such a dangerous event occur from their interactions (X-1, Crawler Drones, Field Probes etc. can be Picked up)
You could simply modify what I mentioned in the first instance and make it so that Marines simply will not do it because it can produce an extremely dangerous reaction jeopardizing the lives of those involved (Why it no longer affects players).
Will likely rename grav gun. No final name in mind atm.
I call it the grav nade, or for kicks, the gravy nade.
Besides, there's already a plethora of dual shorthands. Ie, theres 2 SS's, Shadowstep, and Supply Station. Almost every server has (serveral) players whose names are shortened to arc. The Flamethrower weapon & class frequently are referred to by the same shorthands.
Yes Nite but there could be obvious confusions between meaning of GG it vs need SS!
I am very much against removal of the GG particularly because of Athena and Z effect.
In terms of names, the gun came before the nade, seems strange to change the name of the first item the acronym for which people have gotten used to.
It could be called magnetic (field) grenade. Or replace grenade with canister or satchel or charge or field simply. (Gravity canister/satchel/charge/field)
That would make little sense, unless it was magnetism so powerful it held them place by the iron in their blood. In which case it would most likely just tear everything into pieces.
I don't like the grav gun either because it seems to be directly created to fix the problems posed by items falling in unreachable places. It's actual "attack" is horrible for any purpose, and the slow can/has probly killed players. Its throw powers are like a much more spammable version of force push.
I can personally vouch for being killed several times now by the troll slowing that the Griefer Gun inflicts. Not as much as I've been TKed by other applications of it, but it has happened.
And I do believe Ghost just highlighted one of the key reasons Kith doesn't like the Griefer Gun. Exactly what you were saying, Athena. It's in Apollo Security Team. The Psi Ops is already there. Force Push is a tier 1 talent that they should be using by that point. Even a Telepathy Psi Ops should be able to cross over into Force Push by then if the primary Psi Ops bit the big one earlier. It does seem like poor design that an item can allow any marine to supplant the primary job of a class. It'd be like if we added an item that gave a Marine +10 armor and the Safeguard effect. Why even bother with Protection Assaults in Easy Company then?
But it gets even worse than that. Since the Griefer Gun not only knocks people back, and stuns, but it also deals damage, and can be done much faster than Force Push. It doesn't just supplant the Psi Ops's main role, but it's a strictly better version.
You can't always push an Athena-stunned teammate to safety. GGing them tends to have better results while they remain stunned and unable to act.
Outside of that, you can also save teammates outside of Apollo Sec who somehow get surrounded or fall behind and need help or to take your nexus with you. Players/units within the bubble remain vulnerable, so it isn't like some invulnerability tool.
If someone is griefing you with it by using the basic attack, then maybe all they need to be told is that while having the GG equipped, set your character to Hold Fire and this won't happen.
The basic attack has become pretty pointless anyhow since it became bugged and autofires instead of Stinger-manual-fire.
Gravity Gun requires insight into the weapon to use properly - in the hand of a troll it is just as deadly as any other teammate affecting skill on a character talent tree - the reason we removed it from Newbie mode.
Ya there's no problem distinguishing it at all.
GG = Gravity Gun
Troll hole = Gravity Grenade.
I see no problem here 8|
Ability, I don't think you should rename the gravity gun because it has been around longer and people are use to its name. Gravity Grenade is what should be renamed because its new; therefore, changing the name will be a smoother transition. My point is that people will still call the gravity gun the gravity gun if you change its name, but people will not continue to call the gravity grenade the gravity grenade because it's new and hasn't been around forever like the gravity gun.
I find the logic flawed. In so far as I still call the Weapon's Tech T3 "Black Dog", even though "Black Dog" was only it's name for what, a week before someone called Racist on it and had it changed?
Separate names with a comma.