FUREH FRUM DA SKIES: Kith's Forward Observer rework

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    I've reduced the MI Marksman base HP from 130 to 120. It has a higher damage profile and the risk is relatively low.

    MI Flamer base armor has been increased from 2 to 2.5. I just realized that Armor is a real and not integer in StarCraft.
  2. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    IMO changing the MM hp isn't really going to change much. They rack up the majority of kills during holdouts where they cannot be attacked anyway. It makes them worse choice only for moving about, at which point most people have converted them into marines anyway due to stim speed.
  3. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Correct. The biggest change is that they're going to die quicker from Cronus's laser. The Marksmen are actually fine as they are, as are the Marines. The Firebats are the ones that are lacking.

    Firebat needs at least 3 base armor, with a +1 or +2 bonus from leveling Firebat Spec to Level 2. Firebats are simply not worth it compared to the other MI.
  4. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Just for clarification, you realy think the fo Marksmen are fine as right now?
  5. PADDYPOWER

    PADDYPOWER New Member

    Whenever I go Mob tree, my Marksmen always end up racking more kills than the other team. Hell, in one game one of my mm had more kills than some of the players. I think Flamer's do need a buff though, never seen them used.
    3.5 armour and +1 for the extra level could suffice.

    For marksmen maybe reduce their range by a little bit?
  6. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    Couldn't we just increase the threat priority for marksmen?
  7. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    If it were higher than that of players mobs would ignore players who form a human wall in front of the MMs. If it remained lower, then you still have the same issue as now.

    IMO they need their damage lowered by 20% which is essentially returned while Veteran's focus is active
  8. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    I think that'll solve the marksmen problem a little.

    For the firebat, the HP regeneration delay should be decreased to 1 and increase the health regeneration, because mini firebats can't take that much damage, and their weapons are short range, plus they should be the most durable of the minis.
  9. ProbeGst

    ProbeGst Well-Known Member

    firebeat mini should have atleast:
    100 % ailment resistance and 3 hp/regen ,3 armor and 300 hp
    (reason: they are very close to the mobs.)
  10. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Minis can be teleported outside of apollo or inside some walls during the gas sequence. (especially on the north east spawn)
  11. JAW

    JAW Well-Known Member

    I've noticed that sometimes they start moving, even though I had them on "hold position" before they were teleported. I had to grab them before they disappeared in the swarms of larvae.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Nnnnno. The minis are powerful enough as is, none of them need ailment immunity again.

    What the Firebat needs is more armor. It helps him tank hits and survive while he's doing that close combat thing.

    What the Firebat does NOT need is more hitpoints or more regeneration. Switching to the Firebat to heal up damaged minis is not what I want to see happen. DA BOSS took out Medkits from the Marines for a reason, and I'm really not interested in seeing it come back in some other form.
  13. Pyromaniac

    Pyromaniac Well-Known Member

    I agree with Kith's point, switching to heal is gimmicky at best. Best avoid adding such a gimmick
  14. JAW

    JAW Well-Known Member

    Would additional armor and a small % dmg reduction (when fully upgraded) even the score?
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yes. Additional armor is what I've been pushing for, and the % damage reduction is what the minis are supposed to get during The Final Cut.
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I think the Infantry FO is currently extremely powerful vs mobs even without gunship. It outlevels the team without trying and its only weakness is actually vs bosses.

    Considering the proposed ultimate would increase the FO's killing power even more, I'd like to propose a few changes for balance.

    1. Reduce mini MM attack speed from 1.4 to 2.0, increase damage by 20% -> mows mobs less drastically due to slow firing overkill
    2. Reduce mini Rine stim buff from 30% to 25%
    3. Keep mini Flamer as is, but increase duration of the active skill by 3 seconds

    Dogs of War:
    10% damage resistance from Final Cut moved here, buff to minis ONLY
    Final Cut:
    20% damage bonus aura only. This is sufficiently powerful given that it affects everything from mini, to engie pets to players and neutrals
  17. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Wall Inc



    As Ghost said already, FO is demoslishes waves of everything thats weaker than a stalker but does little against bosses. This results in him being overleveled because he gets by far the most kills while being moderate at best against bosses.

    Not sure if thats not to much, but it is worth a try considering how extreme the mm minis are.

    would bring them a bit more inline dps wise.

    The duration already is longer than the cooldown and minis have a insane energy regen, they can keep up sprint + their abillity for several minutes, which means increasing the duration would only make microing them a bit easier but wont have any actual effect. I think the skill needed to be changed completly. Flamers are supposed to survive some hits because of their firing range but they are not tanks, which means they should get a skill that rewards them for being close but not make them more tanky. I would even like to see something like bloodlust where you trade tankiness for dps.

    Nice bonus for flamers but i dont think it changes anything significantly.

    Right now it a activated Anticipation without the range requirement. I think this should be a short but hard damage increase, that way it woult be of more use against bosses and less during holdouts at which he excels already.



    some minor stuff:
    He still has the switching buttons, this needs to be changed into the number of available marines.
    The Calldown should be changed to a specific spot, right now you cant call them down during some holdouts because the wall your standing on is to small (resulting in them not spawning).
    The minis energy regen is to good (they regenerate energy while constant sprinting or using their skills).
    Is there a reason fo flares have ground vision only?
  18. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Have improved calldown accuracy of Mobile Infantry in next patch. The MI energy regen has also been reduced slightly. MI Flamer armor will be increased from 2.5 to 3.
  19. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    - MI Marksman now use M45A Marksmen Rifles. 16 range. 1.8 attack speed and 60 damage per hit. (Ghost)

    Agree that overall MI Marksmen were doing a bit too much damage. Their base HP has been increased from 120 to 125.
  20. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Addition to my stuff list:
    When chaning the minis they are auto selected after completion. Also they lose their hotheys after switching which in combination with the auto selection makes it difficult to micro the fo while changing the minis because you suddenly control fo and minis and then cant switch to only your minis to reverse a move command given to them.

    And is it possible to make position of the attack command consistent? im using the raster hotkeys which changes the hotkey depending on which units im controling.

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