Played a EC NM EU run a few week back where I told Quantum Mech to use the SMG on Ereb2 versus the shotgun (as Arms Assault). He was rather reluctant so I told him I'd do the math and show him the difference: NM Erebos 2 Armor: 12 - (10.8) - 7 = -5.8 armor (-17.8 from frenzy LD, AP, HBS) SMG Damage (24 base damage from mob classificaton bonuses): Combo (Concentrated Fire + Blood Frenzy + Harvester of Sorrow) ((24*1.3+(5.8*1.5))*1.75)+((24+1.3+(5.8*1.5))*0.6) = 93.77 Combo - blood frenzy (24*1.3+(5.8*1.5))*1.75 = 69.83 Shotgun Damage (40 base damage from mob classification bonus): Combo (((40*1.3+(5.8*1))*1.75)*2)+((40*1.3+(5.8*1))*0.6) = 236.98 Combo - blood frenzy ((40*1.3+(5.8*1))*1.75)*2) = 202.3 Considerations: -Max concentrated fire, crit, blood frenzy, harvester of sorrow and 1/2 extended clip -Reloads are based on manual reloads at 4 bullets left -Blood Frenzy oscillates 10 seconds on and 10 seconds off Results: [attachment=1326] Weapon comparison of damage done on NM Erebos 2 with an Arms Assault for 30s SMG damage : 26.2k M5 damage : 18.8k Pistol damage : 18.7k Flamer damage : 18.5k Crowbar damage: 16.9k Shotgun damage: 10.3k [attachment=1327] Weapon comparison of Stun(s)/s from bloodfrenzy Numbers > 1 stun second/s mean true perma stunned. Although, practically speaking any weapon able to stun erebos faster than his attack will have the same effect as perma stun (which is almost all of them). Discussion: Anyways, you (QMech) had mentioned you could have raped Erebos as badly if you were using a shotgun. The math says "no you couldn't have". If Erebos 2 were massive, which he is not, this would roughly translate to a x2 factor in the damage seen above. This massive factor is the reason the shotgun is so devestating against most bosses and agrons. Oddly enough, true shotgun damage isn't static as the crit numbers would suggest. I tested out full combo shotgun on Meno and did from ~330-550 damage a shot with the average falling where the math would suggest it should, if it were static.