Field Aid Medic

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Yuey, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    Well i dont see any use of Heal for mid and late game anyway. Explain please? Actually non, for whole game. Sorry i dont have brain.
  2. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I would kinda like to see the Nanotech tree tightened up a bit more. You got a Stun, a Buff, a Delayed Bomb, Max Energy, and a Debuff.

    Considering we already have quite a bit of AoE Doom Casting... Demo, Chem, Sex Ops, FO, etc. I would like to see the Nanotech side of life be more of a straight buff thing.
  3. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Surgical Laser
    Innate: 20 hitpoints healed, 10 second cooldown, 20 energy cost, 1 ailment removed
    Level 1: 30 hitpoints healed, 8 second cooldown, 18 energy cost, 1 ailment removed
    Level 2: 40 hitpoints helaed, 6 second cooldown, 16 energy cost, 1 ailment removed
    Level 3: 50 hitpoints healed, 4 second cooldown, 14 energy cost, 2 ailments removed

    The ailments removed thing is in reference to different kinds, not stacks. Level 3 SL will be able to cure Open Wound and Cripple in one shot, but not two stacks of Open Wound.

    In which case the same problem remains because it's not actually useful. The entire reason that you need 1 SL when you're running Nano is because of Cripple, not because of Open Wound. Open Wound can be managed with bandages easily.

    I'll leave this one to Jercy and Shooz.
  4. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    Heal can be used to top people off without wasting your energy. If someone takes a hit and you need to heal another person like the commando who is nuking during worms. you throw NW on the mando and you use heal to keep the others topped off while they take a hit here and there.

    With the way queen is now. I use NW and heal to top off the tank I'll even use it on other members who're taking a ton of venom. since anti venom heals i'll use heal to keep them up a little bit at a time then av to heal and remove a stack. Heal is your all purpose and sticky adhesive to any situation. It's fine the way it is. If you don't use it you don't understand how useful it is.
  5. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    *shrug* Only reason I ever use Heal in the mid-late game is when my team is failing and a lot of people are taking unnecessary hits and/or HP draining conditions and I just can't Nanoweave fast enough.

    The other reason being "Well I'm at max energy and that one marine is at 95% life... HEAL!"

    Those are the only times it comes up in my Medicing experience.

    EDIT: And Shooz just more or less confirmed what I said. He uses the Heal-o-beam when his team is taking a lot more hits than necessary.

    Though I've never had a situation where the Commando cuts so much, so fast, and the tank is taking up so much damage that I couldn't hit them both with nanoweaves.
  6. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    Well ArcturusV if you play at a 1980 SR or higher you're going to get hit a lot and some shit is just unavoidable.

    I'm not trying to prove your point. I don't often play at a low SR so when I say I'm using it he way I am, I'm fully utilizing the skill, where as I believe others don't because they're not ever in that position.

    Heal is an amazing skill. Just leave it alone.


    EDIT: No disrespect to you or your level of play.
  7. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    So Shooz:
    I am saying Heal is useless if you got Restoration, you say Heal is useful if you skip restoration (and shield).

    Both of which are true.

    The issue at hand thus is that restoration for you doesn't warrant the point investment while for me it does.

    Overall, restoration vs heal will be a lot more efficient, but you compensate by hybriding and getting capacitors, so energy efficiency is a moot point for you.

    Btw, outside of lives, SR 1980 vs 1800 has 0 differences. And you'd think people at 1980 would be better at avoiding hits than at 1800. You can trust me on EU ppl don't avoid hits as well as you guys do at times, but I still manage to keep everyone alive with SL/NW/Resto and the occasional shield (for demo and general hit prevention).


    In a nutshell what this means is that if you go for the T3 as people *should* by design, Heal becomes unused, useless, pointless.
    If people *skip* the T3, then Heal can become a staple skill. Just like Bloodlust and Repulse were buffed so that Rifles don't get Weapon Prof and then go Combat or T1 passives and then Weapon Prof.
    The reason Shooz and Jercy go Heal + Capacitors is because this is actually the same reward (or better as they have nano skill access too) than going FA all the way.

    Having a skill that becomes useless when you get the ultimate of your tree is horrible design IMO.
    And unless you somehow make Heal also cure ailments or more efficient HP:Energy than Restoration, it will always be outclassed by Restoration simply because it is multi target instant and Heal is single target channel and both do the exact same thing.
    It is the only reason why SL and Restoration are both worth getting and NW when Resto is on CD or simply for lazy keeping tank alive.

    The issue is that medic has too many plain heal spells in Heal, NW, Resto and to some extent SL as a Heal replacer. It needs something different and to free that slot and to make it a more dynamic class, Heal should be replaced (i.e. by Nano Strength or a Passive) or if you move SL to innate, have nano strength AND passive.

    Therefore, I feel that it is high time Heal was replaced. Strategies/Playstyle do need to adapt to changing landscapes or we will always remain stuck in the old world and not progress forward towards better design and rewarding gameplay. Personal opinion, maybe yours too.
  8. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    I post in support of keeping the Medic's tier 1 heal largely because of what Shooz himself has posted.

    Also, I don't think a property that allows a person to be flexible with their build can be considered bad design, quite the opposite for me in fact.
  9. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I quoted this part just as a reminder. If I recall waaaaaay back in the day, when a lot of talk about buffing the Heal-o-Beam's efficiency was bouncing around (Instead of just increasing the tick rate of HP gain and Energy Loss as it currently does), The Man revealed that something about the Heal-o-beam is hard coded into SC2 and the conversion rate can't be changed, only the speed at which the conversion from Energy from Medic to Health on Target.

    So as far as making Heal more efficient than Nanoweave or Restoration that simply cannot actually happen, unless you severely nerf Nanoweave or Restoration which I don't think anyone here is arguing for.

    And I myself have been asking for the Heal-o-Beam to be speedhacked up a bit more to make it competitive and more useful, not eliminating it wholesale. Which is why I'm kinda surprised that Shooz sounds like he is opposed to me. If he does indeed love using the Heal then he should have no problem with my stance. Unless he thinks that my idea is going far too far and would be insanely overpowered necessarily. I honestly don't think that would be the case as it would still be highly inefficient on the energy side of things compared to other heals.
  10. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Stack a timescale buff on when medic is using heal. <.<

    [EDIT] I'm not giving feedback. I'm just saying if you stack a timescale buff on the medic she can heal faster and since she's stationary and not shooting the other aspects are moot.
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Heal isn't difficult to change if the energy-to-health conversion is hardwired. Apply a buff with extra levels that heals x amount of hitpoints per second while under the effects of healbeam to match the amount on the tooltip. Easy.
  12. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Another thought.
    Maybe turn Heal into innate instead of SL. Makes the medic more medicky.
    I don't feel its a good idea to have both SL and AV as innate as it makes going full nano so much more viable without needing to worry about any ailments
  13. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Which is of course what he wants. So that Nanotech Medics don't have to 1 off into Field Aid. Not like we force Mobility Recons to one off on Flare.

    Though Innate Heal is something I did on my rebuild. So you're not alone in thinking that Ghost.
  14. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Moving Heal to the marine action card shouldn't effect right click healing, if that's the issue.
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Moving Heal to an innate will not solve the issues in question, so no.
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Can you elaborate on that Kithrixx because as Arcturus correctly stated, Mob recs tend to require 1 in Flare as well for greater team utility and we aren't exactly moving flare to Recon's innate.

    Anyhow, my reworked Field Aid Medic Proposal:

    Innates
    Anti-Venom 15 Energy, 3 Cooldown
    Cures 1 Stack of Venom, Heals 10 HP

    Heal Channeled
    Heals 3 HP per 1 Energy, 5 HP per second

    Field Aid
    Tier 1
    Nano Weave 30 Energy, 10 Cooldown, 15 Second duration
    Regenerates 3 / 5 / 8 HP per second

    Surgical Laser 20 Energy, 7 cooldown
    Cures 1 stack of OW|CR|BL and restores 20/35/50 HP with 7/6/5 cooldown

    Tier 2
    Nano Shield 20 Energy, 3 Cooldown, 20 Second duration
    Sets max shields to 30/60 and adds 1/3 shield armor

    Advanced Life Support Passive
    Level 1 - SL/AV heal +10, NS +2 shield regen, Heal rate increased to 7HP/s
    Level 2 - Decreases cost of SL/NW/NS/AV by 5, -1 Cooldown for SL/AV/NW/NS

    Tier 3
    Restoration 30 Energy, 12 Cooldown, 9 radius
    Heals 80 HP, 15 Shield, 15 Energy to Medic and closest 5 allies
    Cures Madness (if followed by by SL - better control in case someone wants to keep Madness)
    Applies buff "Restoration" on targeted allies for 5 seconds
    Medic does not gain 15 Energy

    Buff: Restoration
    While under the effect of this buff, applying AV or SL cures all venom or OW stacks the target has



    This rework would probably make those who like Heal happy in that it retains Heal at 3:1 HP:E and 7HP/s rate (once T2 is skilled).
    At the same time, it makes going Field Aid all the way (maxing every FA talent) a lot more attractive in making the passive buff most Field Aid talents and allows Restoration to get close to the Chem's VRL-122 prowess except requiring additional work/energy, so FA medic is not totally outclassed by the Chem Expert.

    Note I opted for a cost/cd reduction on skills instead of a passive healing aura as this encourages active use of skills as opposed to laziy relying on a passive to sustain/heal people, besides the OP syngergy between that and the Tech Nanite Aura or Safeguard Assault with weave, NHA and the passive regen on top.

    The main differences between the rework and the current FA medic are relatively small:
    Command Card has sufficient slots for all talents now (with Heal going to Marine Actions)
    Restoration buffed to make it a proper T3 worth getting
    T2 passive increasing effectiveness of FA talents very slightly and making them more cost effective vs plain restoration spam
    Reduced cooldown of SL
    +1 Armor on Shield level 2
    Restoration cost increased
  17. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Actually Ghost, to clarify what I meant:

    You hit what Kithrixx's concern was right on the head. That in games Nanotech Meds are told/forced to put their first talent in Surgical Laser (Unless there is more than one). So he wanted the Surgical Laser as an innate so that Nanotech wasn't artificially slowed down by the need to remove Cripple Conditions that cannot be removed in any other way. Well... any other way that isn't suffering from one of the most deadly conditions in its own way for about 5 minutes.

    Typically we don't REQUIRE a MobCon to get 1 in Flare, least not like that. If they do, cool, it's seen as being useful for Emergency Hugger Situations, though lately the Hugger Reveal is working much better than it used to. If a MobCon was our only recon in an Easy Company Game (Only place they tend to be used now), and went pure Mobility right off the bat no one would really piss and moan.
  18. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    People also wouldn't need to piss and moan about medic going full nano if they didn't get themselves banged up that bad they have so many ailments to take care of either.

    People shout and scream if the only rec is a mob rec and someone gets wall hugged and the hugger is positioned in such a way that you need a rec flare to see it.

    The hug on one hand is permanent, cripple or OW isn't. They wear off after a while and esp early game when everyone is together anyhow, hold fire and/or agility mitigate any issues.

    Indeed cripple would be the only issue given that you have Heal and AV as innate which take care of wounds and venom. And cripple really poses no danger in a team that stays together and covers each other.

    If you want it fixed asap for speed bonus, then have your medic go 1 in SL, that's part of life and strikes a balance between speed now dps later or harder speed but earlier dps.
    All it requires is a change in mindset. It is exactly the same issue as mob rec and flare, just that some people find cripple annoying when really as I stated, it is hardly dangerous unless you all scurry away without regard for your teammates.
  19. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    People can miss and moan all they want. It's a hugger, a threat that can be dealt with in innumerable ways. You've played before, its obvious where huggers strike from, and these areas should only be traversed by multiple players. Worst case scenario you get a stack of road flares.
  20. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Exactly. Sonic Traps, Towers, Plasma Satchels, Stun, Road Flares, etc, etc, etc. Lots of ways to deal with that.

    Cripple only has one way to deal with it. Surgical Laser.

    Now... you say just "Wait it out". Though one can argue there are situations that can't really be waited out, like the start of Apollo Security Team.

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