Field Aid Medic

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Yuey, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Concerning Nanites remake: Well, we could give the regen aura over to the Medic as a replacement for Heal. Could also make Heal into an innate skill as well if people really want the green laser of self XP denial.
  2. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    Funny story, Yuey. I was examining doing exactly that. The Medic Rework is coming along rather well at this point, and I'm done with Field Aid in concept. Now I just have to figure out what to do for Nano.

    Here's an incomplete teaser for the impatient:

    SL moved to Innate

    Tier 1 of FA:
    Heal aura/upgrade SL's cooldown, hp heal, amount of ailments healed (It's a passive)

    Nanostrength (a buff fits MUCH BETTER in a healer tree than it does in a debuff/caster tree. Also gives the FA med something to actually do while not healing, a major flaw of the current FA tree)

    Tier 2:
    Still Nanoshield and Nanoweave (also in FA: renaming everything because it's going to be awful strange having a tree called "nano" and all of the FA's skills starting with "nano")

    Tier 3:
    Restoration rework (no name yet, but a channeled AOE heal instead of the "five targets get healed" thing we have going on now. If you want an example of the mechanics, think Tranquility from Warcraft III)

    Nanomed is proving to be less simple, however. I'm removing Mindblast (and putting it on the Psi Ops, actually) and Nanostrength is getting scooted over to he Field Aid tree. VI needs to be reworked to do something else because at this current time Nanosear just completely outshines it in every way. The only things I'm not touching are Nanosear and Energy, so I've got my work cut out for me. For a basic idea of what I'm aiming for, I'm going to try to make the Nanomed into a fairly solid DOT caster with decent debuffs. The only disable I'm sticking with is Nanosear, because honestly? If we get any more disables on this then Nano/Chem or Nano/Delta is going to get really, really ugly.
  3. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    Personally I feel restoration just needs some additions and number work, the mechanic is excellent for a T3 skill in that it is instant high healing.

    I've found the current restoration mechanic invaluable and irreplaceable in my medic playstyle. Making it a channeled slow heal would be a nerf IMO considering you get a passive t1 aura in your rework and weave is essentially a slow heal as well.

    In summary there needs to be some instant large amount of HP spell on the FA tree if you move SL to innate and fixed 20.
    If anything should become a tranquility like spell it should be weave.

    For shield I'd like a buff on the spell but upping shield would make it OP for silverstar and upping armor would make certain characters extremely powerful while shield is active - I dunno I guess I'm not used to medic being a powerful buffer in that regard even though other classes can buff at mucj higher levels but usually dps not survivability.
    What that left me with is shield regeneration buff on shield similar to Protect on reaper.
  4. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    Restoration just needs to be AOE. The "5 random doods" mechanic has always been the skills biggest liability.
  5. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    Or that - heal everyone in 6 radius

    It is medic + 5 closest doods btw not very random when you learn to calculate within a split second whether those you want to heal will get healed

    On the old forum I posted a specific restoration rework where it would use the FO's shell menu essentially for targeting which I quickly adjusted below:

    Max radius: 7
    Split 600 HP between N targets (where N is 1-10 excluding medic who always gets hit by it too)
    Target Heroic only Y/N
    Skip Full HP targets Y/N (for energy restoration purposes)
  6. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    A visible radius indicator on the skill would be nice either way. Current restoration can stretch for miles when it absolutely feels like it. I think it has a max range of 8-9.
  7. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    I would like a visible range indicator as well if only for newer medic players to learn the skill more easily.

    The problem is that the skill is auto-target, so you aren't clicking the skill to bring up a radius. The only way you could otherwise see the radius would be to have a permanent radius circle visible only to the medic at all times when restoration is learnt.
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    Tranquility would be neither slow nor would it be small. Burst healing would be regulated to the upgraded Surgical Laser (which I'm aiming to heal 100 HP at the third level of upgrade) so the T3 becomes less of a panic button and more something that's used in a strategic manner. I'm toying with the idea of making affected units immune or resistant to ailments under the effects of Tranquility.

    (Tranquility being the working name because I have no idea what to call this thing yet)
  9. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    I do feel that medic needs a long range healing skill that doesn't necessarily require vision for teammates who are in a different group from the medic or simply for those who fell behind for one reason or another (or heck, even the civ running rec or those coming back during AC gas or during Hades fight)

    All current skills outside of restoration are very short range.
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    The Surgical Laser upgrade will increase the range of Surgical Laser, but I can't really imagine an ability that is "across the map healing". I'd prefer we avoid that, honestly, because then it really reduces the risk of ramboing.
  11. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    Yea, I fully agree it shouldn't be across the map healing, but say 7-8 distance or current Restoration distance +1 should be possible.

    And like I mentioned in the PM to you, something to decrease the cost/cd of all FA talents would go leagues towards making people NOT cross to nano for capacitors and make going FA all the way worthwhile all the time.

    Particularly if you move NS to FA which will very much limit the energy available when you constantly try to keep people hasted.
  12. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: The K Report: Classes

    Ha ha, guess my random medic rework was far, far off target from your vision. C'est la vie.

    I think the inherent weakness in the Tier 3 you have going is that.... again it's a talent that is innately meant to support a team which is failing horribly necessarily. I mean there are exceptions to every rule but typically if your team is doing well only one or two people should be getting hurt. And it sounds like the use of it would be more towards situation where the team fails like... let two Devs walk up to the group, and the damage they did, plus the Banes, has knocked everyone down in life. or they let themselves get overwhelmed by a mass gargoyle wave and everyone is suffering. Or a really shitty time doing Apop and most everyone is hurt and bleeding.

    Ideally I'd like a tier 3 talent that plays well if the team themselves are doing well. Otherwise (Depending on what it looks like), I'd want to hybrid out like I have during the even weaker version of Restoration days (And still do somedays if my team looks like they are functioning well).
  13. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    [split] The K Report: Classes

    Current restoration like I said just needs some additions.

    My proposed rework was:
    Current mechanics
    90HP 10E 10S to all (no 10E for self)
    Reduce CD of all FA skills by 1 (in addition to a passive T2 that reduced cost and the like for skills)
    Remove madness

    I would add onto that, after being hit by restoration, any healing effect that is applied within next 5 seconds is doubled.
  14. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    This thread was getting too long.

    Anyways, Arc brings up a good point. In the bulk of matches, Restoration is used moreso as "heal the one injured guy, and let everyone else get some free energy." This isn't bad persay, but it doesn't seem like the intended purpose of the skill ever had a place. If everyone is getting hurt, thats a job for medkits with the Medic resorting to curing ailments only to cut down on energy usage. And if this occurs in a navy cross game "get hit less" is the best advice.
  15. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Sometimes between Lelantos, menoetes worms and mass inf rines nearby, a lot of people simply will take hits.

    Or during queen fight with lelantos and clusterfuck at your rear.

    Similarly in Alpha Gas and Lab where part of the team holds entrance and others hold Tanaka or during Hades where the team cannot bunch up and everyone takes a lot of hits.

    The energy gain isn't that bad but it feels forced. It does help classes who are out of energy quickly fire off another talent though and to semi-complement a SS rec
  16. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Surge of Strength: (Passive)

    When a marine is targeted by a Medic ability that marine gains 50 temporary HP (Increases HP and Max HP by by 50 for 7 seconds), and reduces damage the Marine would take by 20%. Casting another ability on them resets the duration of the temporary HP or damage reduction, it does not stack.

    Was my insane idea for a tier 3 Field Aid during my rework. Additional Passives because the card needed room. Though that might not be a concern for you. I could see that being very useful in general, not only for teams doing well but also teams doing poorly, and is a flashy enough effect to be worthy of Tier 3 status.
  17. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    The rework I had in mind in terms of small changes mainly, but can be built upon:

    Let's start with Field Aid:
    3 skills deal solely with the restoration of hit points with any other purpose secondary.
    These are Heal, Nano Weave and Restoration
    Surgical laser while also an extremely valuable healing tool, its primary purpose is the fixing of ailments.

    Now, having 3 skills for granting HP in itself is not a bad thing as long as they do it differently, however that is not really the case and their varying degree of energy efficiency does not help.

    Heal - channeled single target 3HP : 1 Energy, no cd
    Nano Weave - buff single target 125 HP : 30 Energy, 8 cd
    Restoration - instant multi target 80 HP : 25 Energy, 15 cd (besides + 20 energy)

    Based on this, energy efficiency of healing is 3:1, 4.1:1 and 3.2*:1 respective if considering single targets - restoration efficiency doubles with every additional target.

    As you can see right away, Heal is the least energy efficient of the 3 skills besides being channeling which prevents the Medic from doing anything else.

    This may be justified as it is a T1, however the utility of Heal is extremely low.

    Consider average Joe with 220 HP who gets hit by an enemy. Say he has lost 100 HP by the time the medic gets to him.
    First cast is usually restoration (longest range and cast as you move towards Joe), that brings him up instantly to 180 HP. He takes 1 more hit until you close distance to cast Shield which prevents him from taking further HP damage as it both restored his shields as well as add additional shields. While the enemy is busy hacking at his shield you cast weave, which gives him high HP regeneration and essentially fills him up to max while he finishes the enemy that's attacking him. No need for Heal - in case he has suffered OW/V in the meantime, SL (at level 3) would both fix his ailments as well as instantly heal 40 HP and AV will heal another 10 HP.

    In fact let's consider Open Wounds.
    Jane has taken 50 damage and has 1 open wound.
    3 Heal 1 SL means you fix the wound with 30 HP down and use Heal for another 10 Energy to heal these 30. Total expenditure: 30.

    If you have 3 SL 1 Heal, you fix the wound and the damage remaining is 10 HP, which costs 3 energy with Heal (if you even bother about these 10 HP), total expenditure: 23. Time investment is possibly even better than 3 Heal as you have less HP to take care of.

    The utility of SL improves further the more OW the target has while also damaged.

    Now, SL has a cooldown of 7 seconds which is quite high so you can't spam it. That IMO is a bad thing given how the primary utility of SL is to fix ailments with secondary objective to stabilize the target.
    AV has a cooldown of 3 in comparison and is innate.

    To not make the Nanotech cross tree too powerful right off the bat, 7 cooldown is fine - however the cooldown really ought to decrease with level investment in the skill. Currently adding merely 10 HP per talent to the healing power and nothing else is extremely weak for any skill.

    Progression I would suggest would thus be:
    20/35-1/50-2 where -1/-2 refer to cooldown.
    Cooldown at level 3 thus would be 5 seconds, which is adequate for the time being.

    Heal as I discussed outside of being a noob trap and "oh but I am medic I need heal beam" is pretty pointless for general purpose, and even more so if dealing with tanks (both Demo and Assa) who either need a massive HP boost or constant regen only (besides shield and ailment fix)

    As far as my opinion goes, Heal should be replaced with another skill.
    My initial rework had shield on level 1, but on second thought, moving weave to level 1 and keeping shield on 2 might be a better idea for continuous healing focus on Tier 1.
    Weave thus would scale to the current T2 maximum but start off at a lower minimum - say 3 / 5 / 8 regeneration for the same cost.

    Tier 2
    Keep shield where it is - generally the skill works well and the effects are quite balanced as they both restock spent shields and set shields to a higher maximum. Intelligent use (not casting on people with full shield) is where it shines.
    It does require a small buff though which cannot be on max shields due to Silver Star synergy but could be either on a further +1 on shield armor (a further +2 would be too powerful) and/or higher shield regeneration ala Reaper's Protect.

    Now there's a slot free on T2 where Weave used to sit as it replaced Heal on T1.
    As Medic needs a second passive and Field Aid has none, this would be the ideal place.
    Advanced Life Support
    My suggestion in the other thread was this:
    1: Reduces cost of AV/SL/Shield/Weave by 3
    2: Reduces cost of AV/SL/Shield/Weave by 5 and AV/SL fixes 2 stacks per use

    The reduction of energy cost might look tiny compared to the 5/10 on the Chem Expert, but it affects 4 skills instead of 2. Note that the purpose of this skill is to pseudo-buff the medic's energy pool without actually increasing the pool or the regeneration and to make the Field Aid skills themselves more appealing and cost-effective.

    Given the prevalence of troll larvae and OW from Agrons, Apop and the like, removing more than 1 stack at a time is sorely needed and having that as a level 2 of a Tier 2 would require considerable investment. It would also make the field medic have some use in Alpha and Sec where people normally go Nano and have little consideration for Field Aid.

    As you can see so far, it encourages Field Aid medics to not cross class to nano at the earliest opportunity for Energy Capacitors by making Healing cheaper, which is a good thing.

    Now for the ultimate. Restoration in itself is OK. Personally I find the +20 energy to be gimmicky as having 2 Field medics means restoration spam at 5 energy a pop instead of 25.
    I'd rather see it as 90 HP 10 energy 10 shields for utility. 10 shields primarily to ward off half a hit and buy time for instance vs troll larvae. Also to not force you to cast nano shield for any sort of shield buff.
    It should also clear Madness as the only talent besides VRL-122.
    Besides this however, I feel restoration needs an additional passive tacked on which reduces the cooldown of all Field Aid talents (and AV) by 1, with exception of Restoration itself, which is already very powerful.
    Reducing restoration cooldown would make lower skills less useful as it outshines them all. The cooldown on it is very much warranted for the instant healing burst.

    What the purpose of the 1 cooldown reduction on the skills serves is to make them more castable, especially with the T2 passive that also makes them cheaper.

    Restoration can further apply a temporary buff where healing spells cast at hit targets over the next 5 seconds could have double the effect and/or clear double the ailments.

    It turns the medic into a more micro intensive class that can fix up several people at once without relying merely on Restoration and give it less idle time as a full-time caster. It would also encourage stringly people to get the T3 as it becomes worth getting.



    Now to Nanotech:
    Mind Blast IMO is a nice skill to have for stuns and baneling clearing, however seems rather out of place on the medic. I would rather see the Nanotech medic being able to debuff enemies as VI and Sear are the true damage talents on the tree already.

    As for what kind of debuff it should be I am not quite sure. There's no skills that reduce attack damage of enemies besides Taunt and that may be a starting point. Reducing attack speed of enemies is also quite unique. I do feel that either of those would be better suited for a T2 however.

    Nano Strength is fine, though it sorely needs the HP regneration buffed to a noticeable level. On level 3 you still don't notice the increased regen currently.

    Volatile Injection is OKish, but I feel is better off as a T1 talent. It is also worthwhile to look at retooling the armor debuff of it.
    Currently, you might get just level 1 VI for the armor debuff only and stick with Sear for DPS due to energy costs.
    Maybe the rework at T1 level should be like this:
    1: Explodes for 50 damage, units affected by blast suffer -1 armor
    2: Explodes for 100 damage, units affected by blast suffer -1 armor, -10% ms
    3: Explodes for 50 damage, Afflicted target and units affected by eventual blast suffer -1 armor, -10% ms

    Max stack remains 3

    That would actually give incentive to max the skill out or at least get 2 points in it.

    Capacitors is alright, though really medic lacks regeneration rather than max energy given that the base pool is 200 and with INT 245. With Capacitors you have 445 Max energy and still lowish regeneration (yes 3rd highest, though 4th if you consider tech with open cockpit).
    It is however a full caster class so it needs the energy and regeneration compared to other non caster classes (rifle, tech) who have higher regeneration. I would be tempted to change this talent from 100/200 max energy to 75/150 max and 0.1/0.2 energy regen buff.

    Note the buff is very very slight and the total regen is still lower than that of the other higher regen classes, but just enough of an edge to make more active/aggressive casting possible.

    The new T2 active that replaces Mind Blast on T1 could be something like this:
    Weakening blast, 5 AoE, 30 cost, 6 CD
    1: Deals 50 damage +7 per level, decreases damage and attack speed by 10% for 9 seconds
    2: Deals 100 damage + 10 per level, decreases damage and attack speed by 20% for 9 seconds

    That talent could stack upon itself for the 3 second gap or not stack at all as you wish.

    Nano sear can pretty much remain as is, though it needs to have blind cast enabled due to its large AoE making it unwieldy to use if you need vision of the target location.

    I would actually like to see some synergy between Sear and another skill, such as Weakening Blast, so as boosting damage of blast when target has Sear debuff, but that's for you to decide.
  18. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I would like some kind of passive in nanotech's tier 1 so that FA medic has better options after getting restoration (I consider restoration to be a better use of extra energy than nanostrength).
  19. Jercy

    Jercy Well-Known Member

    I believe Heal is fine the way it is. Heal is an important aspect of the way I and others I play with play medic. The heal aura suggestion is just going to give people more reason to pay less attention when they are playing the class because they don't have to do anything but stand close to heal someone which is bullshit and boring as hell. The heal aura is going to make playing medic extremely boring for the most part. Heal is perfectly fine the way it is, for that matter the entire medic class is perfectly fine the way it is with the expection of FA tier 3 skill. Restoration needs to be adjusted some so that it is more useful late game. It should be able to reduce someone's aliement stacks in half because dying late game to a massive stack of aliements that you couldn't do anything to prevent sucks quite a bit.

    Please do not mess with my heal, it is an invaluable skill to the medic and requires the medic to pay attention to which teammates require healing instead of just standing around.

    Yes, I do see the advantages of having a heal aura over a single target skill. Those advantages exist mainly in public games because there are new players around and they have no idea they should not be getting hit by zombies. The heal aura will encourage bad players to become worse because everyone can pretty much take damage the entire game and when they get low on health all they have to do is just run inside of the medics heal aura. Sure it will be useful in those dire instances where shit happens and the entire team takes damage and is close to death, but those instances hardly ever occur. To me this game is about not taking hits unless you are the tank; therefore, why would we consider a heal aura over a single target heal when only one person should be taking damage throughout the entire game? That logic does not make sense to me.


    If you are really set on changing heal, then I give this suggestion:
    Heal the way it is currently plus the ability to toggle it into a heal aura that will heal the same amount heal's current level does to a single target, but uses twice the energy of heal for every second the aura is activated.
  20. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    So your argument against removing Heal is that it makes the medic pay less attention.
    I would counterargue both with the points in my proposal as well as the fact that you can use weave, shield, SL and resto to fix someone instead of Heal and be more energy efficient and/or time efficient at the same time.

    I always leave Heal on 1 and I never have anyone dying under my watch even when most the team is taking major damage except if I die, get shortcircuit and have no energy or the person in question is someone off on their own.

    In fact, I hardly if ever even use Heal these days other than to top up from 90-100% because my pool happens to be full, which is extremely rare.

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