Engineer

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Froblock, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Field Support

    Tower level 2: Kill switch
    Very gimmicky. It costs 5 energy to use and only 15 non rechargeable energy for 2 towers,
    does 15 dmg with a 2 second delay.

    The only thing i see flawed in this is that it deducts from teammate's shields.
    You can cause heavy rating drops in-game and its not fair to the other players.
    I'd rather the kill switch just bypass shields and directly damage HP.
  2. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Or, not be such a terrible skill. Kill switch should just send the tower into overdrive. Killswitch can be a toggle, adding X dps on top of the towers current dps. When towers are constructed they have half of their full energy, and take roughly 20 seconds to fill the remaining 50%. As long as killswitch is enabled, towers bleed out energy like any other toggle. However, it can be left active even if the tower has no energy, at which point it starts draining health in equal measure. The tower can conceivably use killswitch until it kills itself. When the killswitch aura is active, towers should be stronger than they were even before the nerf, however when its inactive, they are their current incarnations. No friendly fire whatoever.
  3. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I had a different take Nite:
    Towers are built with half energy but deal no damage unless the basic aura is activates, which costs as much upkeep as the regeneration on the tower is.
    So if you leave towers standing (and alive) for a while, you can then activate "Overburn" which drains energy at double the regeneration rate but deals double normal damage and can kill (no ff)

    So to make full use of Overburn you need to leave it cooling at first.

    Something that could further be added is that Overburn drains HP when energy is at 0, so unless told to stop the towers will burn down eventually from the extra output.
  4. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

  5. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    To be honest, I don't see this as TOO much of a problem. I recognize the Engineer is a valued, key member of a lot of styles of play. I just don't like playing them at all. Sure the XP gain is kinda.... squiffy. But then again it's not like it's alone in that. Look at the Assault, heavy combat tree that levels well, Protection Tree that levels horribly and unless something is really, really weird should hit T3 last in the team. Flamethrower has a similar thing going on. Sure, smite deals damage but it can't kill. Shatter is usually late in the tree, then Faith of course. Weapons Tech vs the Mod Tech has a similar thing going on. It's just how it is.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Engineer is a "slowly but surely" process, guys. Field and Combat will have their days when we get done with finalizing the Pathfinder, the Delta Commando, and the Chemical Expert. Or maybe we can slip the Engineer updates in while we're working on everything else. You've basically said the same thing that I did in the K Report: Classes topic, Froblock. :p
  7. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I will add that I'm kinda happy Towers don't kill.

    *ducks for cover from the peasant barrage of rotting vegetables and garbage*

    Because I can't be alone in remembering the days where say, Sec Team would have 3 Engineers who had both Tier 3s before Seth/Comms because of how Towers would in fact kill.

    And generally thinking that may not have been a great idea.
  8. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Your concerns were just about the Combat Engineer though.
    Im talkin bout Field Support Engy and his "WTF Kill switch??" towers.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The toggled killswitch thing being Ghost's Overburn idea, but we've basically settled on the towers killing again, along with having a standard or higher threat priority so Field Engineers can't engage in Pathing Screw for shits and giggles.
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    The only reason Engineers did level that quickly in the old days were the infinite ghoul traps in Apollo.


    As for the 8 radius thing, I'm not a huge fan of it (and it requires more script and triggers) and feel that the other part of my tower suggestion (you can turn it off completely which enabled energy to regenerate so you can use overburn later) might be both easier on the script limit and balanced in terms of output + reward strategical planning of overburn.
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    As far as I'm aware, it doesn't require any script at all. All data editor stuff.


    I feel the the Field Engineer already has enough shit to micro, so I can't say I'm much of a fan of the idea.
  12. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    No it wouldnt. That could all be done through data editor. If you absolutely had to you could force team shift to neutral when Engys not nearby. But that has other complications that I dont feel like bringing up.

    Whatever does happen to towers, it needs to be changed from a passive behavior to a weapon of the same range, damage, and speed. Then the ai will properly target them (as its an enemy with a weapon, not a magical health leach) and its easier to visually represent (ie, tooltip) as well as balance. For those wondering a weapon would use "marginally" (read: miniscule)-ly smaller amounts of "code." It just needs to be centered on caster, and meet all the appropriate stats to remain equivalent to the current behavior.
  13. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I get really confused what's data and trigger these days. Almost sounds like you can say if player X is within 8 radius of player 1, check if hacker, then ban :D
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    If you're confused about it, then ask if it would eat script instead of simply making the assumption that it will.
  15. Faneria

    Faneria New Member

    It seem engineer towers really have alot of problems. How about we forget about the towers and replace with something else that suit for the kiting game like notd?. I heard so much about encouraging players to kite more than just camp and shoot because it make the game boring. The engineer right now is more like a camping class which is make him can't use his skills in full potential, don't even need to talk about how slow x-1 now. Easy example, in survival mode, engineer rarely or no chance to use tower since we can't camp much anymore. It would be better if it is replaced with something else more useful.
  16. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Nope that'd be a trigger, albeit a short one.

    But you can use search area effects on the towers to scan if the host engineer is close enough. Then you can set their (weapon, effect, behavior, w/e their damage is) to only work if "player owned engineer" is in the search radius. Otherwise they either turn off or just lose the ability to harm enemies (havent tested which is simpler)
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    They really don't. They're alright, they just were a victim of sensationalist nerfing. Looking back on it, it might not have been the greatest of ideas, so we're fixing it.
  18. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    The problem is because they do fast rapid damage with no reloading they are basically guaranteed to steal every kill their area of effect. This excludes one hit kills of course.

    If they still killed but dealt more damage at longer intervals, they could still get kills and level the engy, just not as Mind numbingly fast. I would prefer we dont go back to "lol the engineer maxed both trees again."
  19. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    As would I. I don't want "Lol, both trees maxed".

    As I recall talking to Kith and The Man about, we were talking about how the Towers Pathing Fuck the difficulty right out of certain fights like the first third of Alpha Company.

    So we could have it so that the tower itself has the current inability to kill. But the tower also has an attack of its own. Some short ranged shock beam or something. Gives it an actual attack so it doesn't fuck with Pathing apparently. Gives it the ability to get some kills and XP.

    I just recall it as something that was being mentioned.
  20. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    this 1000 times over. The origanal tower engie with skill could take out entire sectiosn of mobs with 0 effort. By virtue of halfway decent placing, Engineer obliterated spawns stuck in city, spawns stuck in airlock, Mil Base, Airlock, Domes, Eggs, large chunk of nydus mobs, and moderate chunk of queen hordes. I think my realization of just how overpowered they were is when a vet engy telling me the skill was learning when NOT to use the towers...

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