Implemented Energy And NOTD 2

Discussion in 'NOTD 2 Discussion' started by Kith, May 25, 2015.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    After much deliberation, the following decision has been made:

    NOTD 2's classes are going to have their Energy Maximum and Energy Regeneration rates standardized to 100 and 1 per second, respectively.

    There are many reasons for this:
    • Balancing the energy costs of abilities will become much easier.
    • Balancing energy modifying abilities, such as the Engineer's Packet Management ability, becomes much easier.
    • Players will be able to more accurately judge the cost of abilities and their impact on their energy reserves.
    • There's less information to memorize (E.G. Rifleman has low energy maximum but high regeneration, Engineer has an enormous maximum and low regeneration, so on and so forth).
    • Items or player bonuses that increase Maximum Energy or Energy Regeneration no longer have a disproportionate impact on certain classes.
    Overall, the various classes will play the same way (or similarly, at least) due to the costs of all abilities being adjusted to fit, so the impact on gameplay will be largely negligible. Personally, from a "uniqueness" perspective, I actually kind of like that the various characters have their own spin on resource management. However, I'm also very used to the stats that are already in place, and making things easier to get used to will net us more players because less of them will be frustrated by the amount of information that they need to learn in addition to the benefits described above.
  2. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Liaison

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    As I said earlier, behind closed doors, it's all arbitrary anyway. An ability that costs 50 energy on a class with 200 max is the same as an ability that costs 25 energy on a class with 100 max.
  3. Drunk

    Drunk Well-Known Member

    Quite the idea you have there Kith, although I'm still a bit skeptical of it. Since I have yet to see how this affects the classes that rely heavily on ability usage, I'll refrain from giving a proper comment on it.
  4. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Liaison

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    Just need to balance cost, nothing more. Low cost and low impact versus high cost and high impact isn't too hard to dance around. If anything this is a buff. Consider that in NOTD 1, there are only 4 classes with a base regen of 1 or greater:

    Rifleman: 1.4
    Medic: 1.2
    Pathfinder: 1.2
    Technician: 1

    The rest are actually far below that threshold with the Demo and Chem being next highest at 0.8 and the Engineer bringing up the rear at a "barely even there" 0.45. This can give you an idea of how little effect it will have on high-demand classes and how greatly it will improve low-regen classes.
  5. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    It's as easy as adjusting the skill cost percentages to the new Max Energy value while taking into account the Energy Regen rate. Like I said in the first post, the impact on actual gameplay will be largely negligible - classes will still handle the same, it'll just be much easier to verify how often you can cast certain abilities and also easier to balance stuff that gives players energy.
  6. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    I don't like it. Lack of variety and all that. Just makes the game boring, seems lazy and cookie-cutterish to end user. See battlefield 3 and 4 for the cookie cutter example. Most all weapons have the same min/max damage value within their class and caliber subclass. Only differences are muzzle velocity (affects how the bullet behaves with gravity), gravity values (same deal), spread differences, and rarely, magazine size.

    In a word or three this idea comes across as uninspired/uninspired and boring.

    Further edits:

    NotD has a niche. It's my opinion that we should respect that niche, and not deviate from the core of NotD to appeal to the "twelve year olds of starcraft".

    It's how you kill the community imo.

    Edit Part Tres: Done for now.
  7. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    PERSONAL OPINIONS AHOY: I think you should really be scaling the rate at which you can cast spells consistently instead. Like if a spell used to cost 20 energy on a 0.5 regen rate character, the spell should now have a 40 energy cost.
  8. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Liaison

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    That's the plan. Obviously we weren't going to just throw numbers around and drink ourselves into a coma. It improves balance, player inference, and makes snap decisions easier to make. This isn't pandering or hand-holding; it's simplification for everyone.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    That's what's going to happen. Like I've said twice now:
    I would bold the relevant parts of that message but I'd end up bolding the whole thing.

    Y'sure about that? Because the personal feedback (especially from people not familiar with NOTD or new to NOTD) I've gotten so far says the opposite.

    I really don't see how making a player's energy more consistently readable is going to kill the community. And, by the way? Appealing to a wider audience is how NOTD stayed top 20 most played games for four years solid as opposed to NOTD:SO and UA3 and other survival games that went for "hardcore" or "purist" gameplay and in some cases treated their players like shit. Appealing to a wider audience and being easier to get into is how games become popular and succeed, and I'm not going to be so callous as to avoid doing so because NOTD's community veterans have a real bad habit of saying "fuck newbies".
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  10. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    MY MISTAKE. I read it as you would only scale it off max energy, which would be a seriously huge buff to stuff with low regen rates.

    Would stuff that has max energy/energy regen involved in their skillset like PF/Engi/Medic/Commando be adjusted numbers-wise based off the changes? Or are you waiting to see the impact before nerfing/buffing their skillset?
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Definitely going to change those. The originals were drafted with the original energy max/regen/ect in mind, so of course I'm going to redo them once those base factors change.
  12. stanK

    stanK Member

    I wanted to suggest energy normalization for NOTD1 to simplify things, spell cost and cool-down are pretty much enough to balance anything, the rest is just fancier math that boils down to same thing.

    However it wouldn't really lower the learning curve or simplify balancing. Players will still struggle with learning tons of abilities, cooldowns, relative mana costs. Normalizing will just remove 2 variables from the equation. So yes, its an improvement i welcome, but its a SMALL improvement that should have been done years ago.

    You are missing the point. Its one thing to add features that dumb down the game, its a whole nother to keep messy ones, just because no one bothered to organize them and make things simpler.
  13. PokieZombie

    PokieZombie New Member

    Is short circuit or any sort of enemy emp/feedback abilities a thing? Because that might have an impact if you havent cosidered already
  14. stanK

    stanK Member

    Shouldn't the impact of short circuit be measured by "how much a player can spam certain spells at certain moments"? and not by the maximum possible amount of mana someone has? As blaqk pointed out, its just an ARBITRARY number, meaning no one really considered anything much when they originally picked it.
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