Dota 2 thread

Discussion in 'Other Games' started by Zeriathyr, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. nex_

    nex_ Member

    Yup there is a lot of luck, that pretty pissed me, because it impact game balance. I didnt know it was at this point different on mmr evaluation, but seems logical, the fail mm impact the game balance.

    every thing egals there shouldnt have such difference :p

    Added u shiro
  2. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    http://dotabuff.com/matches/721354135

    Another weird match, don't know why PA decided to get maelstrom, and Necro decided to ignore Heartstopper Aura while soloing for reasons unknown.

    And despite them tri-laning, that stupid Enchantress gave us First-Blood. The 4 wins in a row starts to scare me.
  3. so guys as usual i try to have a hero for every role but i cant seem to be able to play durable (i die too much ), i could really need the help and tips. here is my profile
    http://dotabuff.com/players/143290333
  4. ProbeGst

    ProbeGst Well-Known Member

    i don't know which hero will suit you, it depent how you play.
    do you like anti-stun? high regen and project-disjoint? take slark
    like to be retarded tanky and be a pain in the ass for the enemy team ( late game-carry)? take spectre or medusa (don't take when there are mana-burners)
    high damage and no escape enemies who have only melee-str? viper, timbersaw, phantom cancer.
    magic immunity and you hate high 500k hp pudge who ruins your games? take lifestealer
    but but i want to be badass carry! take the manliest hero: Skeleton king
    Dangerous spells and super high regen that grand semi-immortality? take alchemist/ abbadon and to some extend necrolyte
    i like to carry and split so hard, the enemies cry blood? take your poison: anti-mage, nature profit, lycan or morphling.

    For the best gaming experience i can only tell there are only 2 universal counters to all of them:
    1. Gank him and you'll be fine
    2. Doom him and you'll be fine
    3. kite him and you'll be fine
    4. don't feed them and you'll be fine
  5. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Durable isn't really a role, its a description of the hero itself having spells/stats that make it hard for the enemy to take him down. They cover quite a range of hero types like Windrunner, who's a support with some carry potential to Axe, who's basically a gigantic meatshield and fight initiation hero. The thing about some of these heroes is that you sometimes want to abuse their skills to survive and not go in 1v5 thinking you can maybe get out. Nothing in the game survives 1v5 outside of some heavy misplays.
  6. thanks probes, i will try some of those

    i am looking for the tank role, the one who can take damage for the team and survive while team is destroying everything, my first thought was axe however magic usually if not always kills me
  7. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Well, there's no such thing as a "tank" in the strictest sense of the word in Dota. The only hero with a taunt is Axe and even then its so low range that its more like a disable than a full taunt that forces enemy agro onto you. Unlike say NOTD, where you have taunts on every single main tank in the game and the two other tanks can abuse the AI by running out the front and forcing the zombies to focus on the tank instead of the squishies behind. Against actual humans, this doesn't work that well, only Axe can force someone to attack them and even then, its low duration and range so it doesn't always work.

    However, you CAN force human enemies to focus you by just using a hero that's stupidly threatening to their team and makes it so that if they don't focus fire you fast, they die. Heroes like Tidehunter, Centaur Warrunner, Timbersaw are all very very bulky and have huge burst potential that forces the enemy to focus you or take massive damage. Most of these heroes can just walk straight into the enemy team without a problem (with your team nearby for backup of course) and cause havoc. Timbersaw is a little bit more difficult to learn, Centaur and Tidehunter are really easy and basic heroes. If you find yourself YOLO-ing into the enemy team too much and dying and want to reduce that a bit, try Wraith King, Reincarnation is a great safety net to stop you feeding too much and when you die with Reincarnate up, you actually help your team quite a bit with a huge slow aura right before you revive into your 2nd life.

    Oh yeah, if you're getting killed by magic as Axe, you could try building an early Hood of Defiance and then upgrade to a Pipe of Insight later, helps lower magic damage that you take by quite a bit. Or if you feel a little bit more kamikaze-ish, buy a Blademail and jump into the enemy team while activating it, more likely than not, you'll blow up a support who tries to nuke you down with magic damage.
  8. nex_

    nex_ Member

    Basic durable hero :
    With few items
    - the big hp pool hero that can really disctract : pudge (magic) / doom (+regen, require armor).
    - the passive ones : dk, bb, leoric, tide (any item demultiply their tanking),
    - the active ones : alchemist, undying (require some items)
    axe is special , because the call grant 40 armor, and axe is supposed to be in the melee, but he is very item dependant.

    The ones based on passive
    - passive + active : huskar, timber, naix, panda (require some items
    - passive + active + item : enchant (special, need either hp/armor item either no opponent with nuke)
    - passive + item : spectre, viper, visage (any item demultiply their tanking)

    The other :
    - active, + item, can tank to some extent : necro, omni, abba


    Try : DK / leoric (the ultimate one) / naix / panda / & viper spectre with tanky build later, get used (to the limit) to rely on ur tankyness to take advantage on trading blows, and to learn placement.
    Then you can get the other ones.

    ;)
  9. ProbeGst

    ProbeGst Well-Known Member


    don't try to hard heroes if you haven't 2 years experience.
    master supports like dazzle, cm, shadow shaman, shadow demon, witch doctor.

    they have high damage and high priority early-mid (0-50 min): dazzle,cm,witch doc.
    has high pushing skills: dazzle, cm, shadow demon and shadow shaman.
    easily farm jungle, stack at :53, cm, SD, witch, dazzle.
    game breaking ultimates: weave ( armor reduction/increase)
    Freezing Field (high damage and winning)
    snake trap( high tower killing and sometimes unstoppable)
    demonic purge ( this godlike, support scales with game/enemies/allies, high nuke AND BKB-piercing SLOW)
    witch doctor ( BKB-piecring damage, walking fountain, insane damage, lich ultiamte at lvl 1.)


    special mentions:
    vengefull spirit: her nether swap is gamebreaking, she can force enemy carry to go out of position and disturb through BKB!!!
    lich: denies exp and good for sturdy towers.
    treant protector: never felt so salty to play against a good Treant with techies.
    Io: your mobile healer and second fountain with bottle.
    lion/lina: high nuke for early game
    omniknight: he hates purge, like doom and SD.
    warlock: quadra-golem will destroy anything if left alone......

    GL HF
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  10. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    No, don't try Shadow Demon. Especially not when you're starting out. Its probably one of the more complex and demanding supports to have an impact with. A mistimed Disruption can hurt your team more than it helps. The debuff (forgot its name) is a little bit hard to aim and land if you're not used to it. Shadow Poison's impact is very minimal unless you can land 4-5 stacks constantly on the enemy. His ult, Demonic Purge, is very straightforward though and is probably the easiest portion of his kit.

    A support with over 10k gold networth in items that just buffs his ult stops being a support and acts more like a semi-carry at that point. Can't deny that quad-golem is gamewinningly good though.
  11. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    I like how you all are mentioning "Durable" heroes without someone saying "Bristleback"

    Also, here's a good example of what happened when enemy takes Rat DotA too seriously lol

    http://dotabuff.com/matches/723268138

    I do not know why Voker went Q+W if he's getting medallion, should have just went Q+E, the armor burn of forged spirit+Medallion is quite annoying. And that Doom almost always Doom BB only for some unknown reason.

    Good beginner support heroes are Lion or KOTL, CM and others are possible, but should not be picked if you're really new as you will likely feed enemies. Lion in this case, is the best all-around support, you get a stun-nuke, a hex, constantly mana drain and a powerful single-target nuke, that is enough for a support.

    KOTL is a bit more complicated, his skills is mostly tailored towards anti-push, but due to his ability to quickly gain gold, it is easy for him to buy most utilities items for the team (Drums, Mekan, Wards, SoD etc.)

    CM, while a very good support, is sometimes very very bad, her Frostbite is her only cc, which only snares enemies, meaning heroes like Mirana or Slark can still easily escape your snare, or attempt to kill you instead, you have 2nd slowest ms in the game, tied with Invoker and just a bit faster than Techies. Your stats are bad, your mana pool is not high, your ulti is very situational. Her powrful traits come from her aura and ability to roam very early, but that;'s something not good for Beginner support.

    Typically, I'd categorize supports into Baby-sitting Supports and Mage/Ganker Supports, Baby-sitting supports are like supports who exists to ensure their carry or co-laner doesn't die, example being Omniknight, Treant, Dazzle or Warlock. These usually have very poor offensive capabilities (compares to the 2nd type)

    Mage/Ganker supports are the major players during the early-phase, they start on a lane, if the carry is doing fine, they pick a teleport, then they walk to gank other lanes, and teleport back if that stupid carry did something bad or being ganked. These supports generally has early game powerful nukes or good ccs. The prime example being Earthshaker, Vengeful, CM, Lion, Shadow Shameow or Ogre Magi.

    There are also semi-support-carry that can perform the above roles as needed if the team really need them, they are mostly casters, example being Undying, Q-W Voker, Support Nyx, Support Viper, Yuey MK II etc.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  12. currently this is what i play, i seem to be stunning well with windranger (people always tend to stay near creeps or trees :D) I think thats a good combination what about you guys?
    HeroMatches PlayedWin RateKDA Ratio
    Windranger 13 84.62% 3.03

    Drow Ranger 10 80.00% 2.02

    Warlock 4 50.00% 2.37

    Bounty Hunter 3 66.67% 2.44

    Axe 2 50.00% 1.38

    Snipe r2 50.00% 1.63

    Zeus 1 100.00% 2.55
  13. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

  14. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Yuey MK-II?
  15. ProbeGst

    ProbeGst Well-Known Member

    for some lanes like trilane-offensive has bad scaling, they usually feed off from kills. So take lich and punish.

    sometimes you can't farm at all. DON'T WORRY, GO TO OTHER LANES AND GANK OR FARM JUNGLE.

    if you get proxy axe, ask mid to gank.
  16. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    I said compare to the actual mage-nukers lol, babysitters like Dazzle and Warlock do yes have a very powerful skills. But they do not have the sudden burst damages of the typical mage-supports like Lina, Zeus or Nyx etc. Ganking a lane with a nuker like these is usually more efficient than sending the baby-sitting types. The baby-sitting types are better suited for following up the ganks or counter-gank, than performing the gank themselves.

    I don't know why, but most of your red texts doesn't seem to have any references to my points above (EMP has nothing to do with medallion and I said KOTL is good at making money myself etc.) But I will not drag this conversation into an argument, DOTA 2 is a game with tons of possibilities and each person may have vastly different opinions from one another.

    But my point still stands though, CM is a good support, one of the best, but it is best for new players to avoid picking her, or using her in pub games, many pubbers do not understand her. She is a rather squishy support that requires good understanding of how to make most uses of her skills to be effective. You can't just tell new players how to W on creeps or stack them at .52 times and expect them to understand etc. I have seen enough newbies that pick her and claims "they will support and babysit" and they end up feeding the enemy's carries because they do not yet understand the game.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  17. nex_

    nex_ Member

    Maiden is not a hard support, thats a lane support, with lane control. T

    Honestly I find those sentences lacking of game experience, but that's personal opinion.

    Uh Lol gameplay I assume. Sorry I'm using the classic QSDF, and I prefer reading full names on skill build. :/ aura / nova / ulti and fb lower level ?

    About that distinction support/nuke hard support, I'd just say the first can snowball grow, while the other can teamclash/push grow. That's all. And yes you can, and have to be the maximum agressive without taking strike back with a wl/dazzle etc.
  18. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    ....What. Who the fuck maxes Frostbite LAST on CM. That's like the worst possible build you can do on her. You don't need level 4 aura that quickly, 2 is more than enough for laning, 3 and 4 are overkill unless you're spamming out Nova to farm. Ult is basically a gigantic "STUN THIS STUPID IDIOT" sign on your head in the early game and you basically die in the duration of any stun. Really, unless your team has a good combo for CM ult like Enigma or Magnus or Tide, you might as well skip ult until 13, 14, 16. Maxing Nova first over Frostbite is situational but kind of okay in some situations like if the enemy has a minion-based pushing line up but not maxing Frostbite right after that is stupid.

    Also regarding the previous topic:
    http://dotabuff.com/players/34153779
    Most played are stuff like CM, Windrunner, SD, Rubick, Veno. Unfortunately, I don't play that often so my total games is pretty low.
  19. ProbeGst

    ProbeGst Well-Known Member

    First, everyone has their own gameplay and those are from personal pub experience not CM experience.
    Uhm you can mod the hotkeys in warcraft 3 to QWER and your items to 123456, it's your personal preferences.

    i don't like to theorycraft a lot, in a game you just play. i just tell how my games goes.


    it's a suggestion, it's how you like to play a hero, it's okay for you to max frostbite first but i like to have burst damage early game and the nice regen give your lane partner mana for their stun or damage. frostbite last 10 sec long regardless the level and that's why i have it low level as long as possible.
  20. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    It...only does that for neutrals? Not you know, like actual enemy heroes that frostbite would be a higher consideration to use on? 3s worth of disable is seriously not worth giving up on for a "playstyle choice". At that point, you're just playing the hero wrong and should've picked something else.

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