Do you find assault tank or demolitions tank to be better versus -nm queen?

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ramses II, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Most teams to my knowledge choose demolitions tank over assault tank in organized games. This used to be because demolitions tank was capable of doing both the job of the assault tank to a large extent and do more as well. Lately, however it seems that not only is the demolitions tank able to do extra tasks that the assault tank is incapable of, but also to do the primary directive of the assault tank better than it (facetanking the queen) with proper support. The purpose of this poll is to find out if the rest of the community can confirm the total superiority of the demolitions tank during the queen fight.

    So, with an expeditionary team at >2000sr nm and all items found, which tank does better against Eos?
  2. Emperor

    Emperor New Member


    Assault Tank has a handful of disadvantages, but more importantly, Arms Assault is just better to have now.
  3. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Would you say the same in a 7 player game where you were either missing the assault or demolitions?
  4. HDD
    • Donator

    HDD Well-Known Member

    Both does his jobs. A protection assault can take it too whitout any armor whit proper supports + medkits. But its more static and he need a lot of bandages+medkit (If he have 0 armor on / If navy is on then he need an armor to stay on tanking the whole time). It help only when your medic is busy elsewhere / Out of energy / Can't reach the tank for heal.

    Fortitude demo need more support and more attention from the medic , he need energy to stay viable. However he has more mobility which can make him tank better than the Protection Assault.

    Still my vote goes to the Protection Assault
  5. Tink

    Tink New Member

    I find an asstank is better since he can facetank almost the whole fight and that means that your dps don't have to worry about the tank suddenly dying, and your medic doesn't have to worry about when ttd will end to keep the demotank alive
    Having both an asstank and an arms assault I find is better than having an arms assault and a demotank
  6. Arcelia

    Arcelia New Member

    I find Demolitions to be better because the high SR -NM games that I'm in, pretty much always have the Engineer's zoo tank the Queen. This makes the Demo better because they can use Look! on the zoo to make sure the Queen attacks them.

    The Fort Demo also handles the hordes of enemies that come during the Queen better than the Assault tank with TTD.

    And then having a Fort Demo lets you have an Arms Assault which helps out the entire story line more than a Protection Assault. Plus the more DPS there is, the quicker the Queen will die which means it doesn't have to be tanked as long.
  7. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Fort Demo. However there are other reasons outside of Queen that make demo better.

    1) His shields means less risk of ailments, and thus less medic intensive.

    2) His taunt reduces more damage, so again, less medic intensive.

    3) His shields + taunt means banelings will be far less likely to penetrate and lose DSM. Asssault can tank 2-3 bane hits without RA, and 3-4 with RA before losing shields. Demo with taunt or RA takes 5+ to lose his shields.

    4) His shields are full healed by nano shield, which is cheaper then weave.

    5) Look has effectively longer lasting duration then charge and has no risk.

    6) Demo is faster.

    7) TTD + Sadist = lol mobs (they will heal him if anything).

    8) Reaper Protect benefits demo far more then assault, since assault has 0 shield naturally. Average demo tank has 4 or 8 (if XS4). Combine protect + nano shield and demo has like 11 shield armor, very respectable.
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Assault, in terms of tanking the Queen, is better off on his own. I have lost track of the times that I just took four full stacks of Medkits and did my thing for the next ten minutes without any Medic support whatsoever. An Assault with C6 and the Riot Shield and two NHAs just does not give a single shit in the entire universe when tanking Eos.

    Demo, however, has a much wider range of utility outside of the Eos fight and with the proper support is entirely capable of tanking Eos just as much as the Assault, if not moreso. Also as Emperor mentioned, the Arms Assault being actually viable contributes much to the prevalence of the Demotank in higher SR games, considering that the Protection Assault is no longer A) completely necessary and B) the only viable tree.
  9. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I think this is the biggest thing that should be emphasized. Arms used to be about a half step above combat rifle (aka why bother?). Also before, demo was seen as an auxiliary tank because of the needed skill to use all his active abilities in order to tank, assault is easier with more passives.
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    All depends on whatthe rest of your team is (and those alive).
    At times you don't need either if you got classes like field engie, at times the assa is better because you are doing speed and don't have the items required to make demo the safe choice.
  11. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    This is assuming the team has not activated navy cross, in which case the assault will rely heavily on the medic to keep him alive. Also, you don't always get the ideal combination of items for every game.
  12. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    The scenario doesn't explicitly say navy cross is activating, and so it would be implied it is not.

    To your second point,
  13. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Taking Arturia/Miku's view in this.
    Team composition wasn't mentioned nor was exped or navy.

    In which case I would assume fully dolled up tanks with the question being which of the two would you prefer (to have or maybe even personally use).

    In which case I would go with Kith's answer as well. C6 + Riot shield NHA (2?) ass tank is a no brainer vs the Queen. Though this may change soon with slithers possibly getting added to the Queen's repertoire of egg reinforcements.

    It's much more forgiving of mistakes (by the tank or medic). The AssTank also can and will easily do the tango with Eos without a medic. This is probably due to the fact that the AssTank was built around the concet of actually tanking the Queen. In the initial forms of the AssTank in fact, it was sometimes possible to tank the queen without a medic and medkits (The old safeguard was especially brutal vs the queen's attacks).

    EDIT: Come to think of it, if equipment was extremely scarce (no ra/xs4/c6) I would even more prefer the AssTank as it really only needs c4 and some form of HP maintenance vs the queen.

    Would also argue that if considering the Queen exclusively, the AssTank is much less medic micro intensive as he would only need a weave every time the skill wore off (sometimes not even). Nano shielding the demo tank after every time it went down however is a tad mandatory. With NM queens at high SR having really really high HP, a medic supporting a demo tank is much more likely to get depleted than one supporting an AssTank.

    I also lost count of how many times I've seen long time players say
    yes, a Demo can tank the Queen but requires a good medic behind him
    when asked by new players if FortDemo can tank Eos.
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Like Arturia pointed out, this is under the assumption that NC was not active and all items were found. Assuming NC and non-optimal items, I'd still pick Assault to be the stronger tank, because as Lyanden said, all you need is C4 (something that you are guaranteed by Airlock) and a Medic that pays attention (not that difficult to come by) and you've got yourself a solid tank for all of the bosses. Assault doesn't tank mobs very well because he doesn't have much killing power outside of the ability to wield the Crowbar comfortably and Charge. More often than not, waves of enemies are just as dangerous as bosses, so having a tank that can handle both (the Demo) is important, especially in Nightmare.

    For an overall tank, I'd pick the demo, simply because he has much more crowd control with Look! and Time to Die. However, for bosses, Assault wins the internet forever. The mobility that Charge grants is massive, and chaining it together with a small amount of kiting and Taunt makes bosses that are supposedly untankable completely unable to function properly.
  15. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Basicly what kith said, if you only see the queen battle completly ignoring everything else the assault wins. But if you include the rest of the campaign, demo wins.
  16. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    Or you could do what 90% of the notd community does and dont use either to tank. Engies will always be the best tank, trick is finding one of the few capable engies out there. but for the poles sake i went demo, as even tho he requires more medic attention to facetank, he doesnt have to facetank the whole time to do the job effectively.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Engi's a pretty shit tank right now with a broken MC.
  18. HDD
    • Donator

    HDD Well-Known Member

    There was the Mind Meld Skill during the reign of the Subtlety Commando that was pwning evertyhing if you could keep your MM'ed unit alive all the way :p
  19. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    Why everyone think protection assault need heavy support from medic? Good tank assault never allow himself to get more than 2 venoms or any other aliments during whole game. That heavy medic support only applies to those lazy "Iwannabetanker" players who doesn't know how to knife and kite properly.
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Basically this. Being a pro tank isn't taking a billion hits and living, any clown can do that. What's being a good tank is avoiding hits as often as possible, something that's made even easier with the presence of Charge. Honestly, I don't understand the people who equip the Crowbar and then use that for the rest of the game.

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