Demolitions Talents

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Reaper, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    [align=center]Thread for Demolitions Talents[/align]

    This post will serve as a carrier for suggestions put forward by members who wish to add a talent or change a talent of the Explosives Demolition.

    [align=center]Suggestion by...


    Tier 1-1
    Creates 2 actions - Lay Mines and Create Mines, Create Mines always creates 6 mines. Max charge of 48, no cooldown. Blast radius of 1.5
    Level 1 - Create Mines costs 45 energy, Mines deal 35 damage
    Level 2 - Create Mines costs 35 energy, Mines deal 55 damage
    Level 3 - Create Mines costs 25 energy, Mines deal 75 damage

    Tier 1-2
    Fire Vulnerability
    AoE 5, cast range 9, 10 second duration, 7 cost, 3 cooldown
    Level 1 - Neutral and Enemy targets take 33% additional damage from Demolition's explosives
    Level 2 - Neutral and Enemy targets take 66% additional damage from all explosives
    Level 3 - Neutral and Enemy targets take 100% additional damage from all explosives and fire

    Tier 2-1
    Smart Explosives, Passive
    Level 1 - Increases Mine blast radius by 0.33, reduces friendly fire of explosives to 40%
    Level 2 - Increases Mine blast radius by 0.5, increases sticky bomb damage by 25% and reduces friendly fire of explosives to 20%

    Tier 2-2
    Sticky Bomb
    Cost 30, cast range 8, cooldown 12 seconds, grants 0.1 vision of target
    Level 1 - Sticky bomb attaches to (non ally) target and can be remote detonated for 200 damage in 1.5 radius. Reduces armor of surviving units by 1.
    Level 2 - Sticky bomb attaches to (non ally) target and can be remote detonated for 300 damage in 2.5 radius. Reduces armor of surviving units by 2.
    If target is killed before bomb is remotely detonated, damage is halved

    Tier 3
    Armageddon - as it is now, but with Reaper's changes

    Main one I want to get you guys talking about for now is - How is Armageddon?

    At the moment, does it feel overpowered in normal games and even to Nightmare Mode games?

    Do you feel maybe that some values should be tweaked such as the explosion damage, tremors or magma damage over time?

    For me personally when I drafted the talent I was thinking mainly that it be an area denial talent so the question is is it currently an area denial talent?

    What I would maybe change about the talent currently is make the initial explosion AoE a bit smaller, reduce the damage a bit from 550 but keep it extremely effective versus Massive creeps, keep tremor magma field size the same and increase the damage per second of magma.

    When you do reply please stay on topic, I'll be a sad panda if you stray off. If your happy with Armageddon (Value wise, not in appearance as it still needs the correct look) then just post a Smiley :)
  2. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Too spammable, and lava needs a better animation.
  3. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Yea, extremely spammable just like satchel.

    In terms of area denial, 10 seconds is very little. I'd rather the actual explosion deal less and the death cloud last 15-20.

    The AoE is also a bit too large to be good area denial as you kind of deny more than you really want and cut yourself off.

    Also feel that the placers should be destructible (they can be cloaked) and have very little HP (so you can't use them as a madspark explosion) so you can't place them well in advance and fire/forget.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I think the bombs being invulnerable is fine. After all, you only get 3. All we really need to do is increase the cooldown and lengthen the "lava" duration by about 5 or 10 seconds and we should be just fine.
  5. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    So for Armageddon everyone agrees that the cooldown should be a bit longer and the duration of the magma should be extended?

    Would everyone also be in agreement that the initial explosion radius become smaller and the damage reduced but magma damage increased?

    I'd still like to the effectiveness versus Massive targets such as the damage being brought down to say maybe 275 damage but 200% increased damage versus Massive for the reason that the initial explosion is designed to blow through layers of thick and immense material with its high energy
  6. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Yeah, and I'm still not 100% sure but as I mentioned during that game, you seemed to be getting a lot more xp for Armageddon kills than you did from shooting kills.
    It seemed to be a flat number - you gained the bonus regardless of if you blew up 1 or 3 agrons or 4 zombies but didn't if it didn't kill anything.
    Or at least that was my impression. from your XP bar at level 9 and 10 inching drastically forward after each strike even when it hits just 1 unit.
  7. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    Does anyone know how much ff damage it does? Because it seems to be much less than 50% ( not including dot of course)
  8. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    The experience gain from killing creeps is the same as talent based kills such as One Shot One Kill and Killing Me Softly.

    The Friendly Fire on Armageddon is probably less than 80% or perhaps even less. Cant even kill a Light class in a single go, the DoT will see to that.
  9. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Armageddon still needs it tweaks (Haven't checked the recent NOTD Update)

    -Reduced initial explosion radius
    -Increased Magma(aftershock) duration and damage

    At the moment there are some players who are complaining and me being one of them that the explosion radius is too large and is causing some teamkilling. (I haven't TK'd anyone with Armageddon but when I drafted the talent I wasn't thinking "Yeah, large blast radius" but it sure does help along with the tremors catching creeps on the very outside of its ring but then aftershock must come in to take care of that problem.)

    As for future Demolitions talents Ive been thinking that the Demolitions should have the following.

    Tier 1 - Spider Mines and Hellpack
    Tier 2 - Fire Vulnerability and Pipe Bomb
    Tier 3 - Armageddon

    Spider Mines
    The current Spider Mines and Build Mines merge into one as is suggested by several players so as to rid him as being only a Mine Layer. Damage of the mines stay the same but the way the Demolitions goes about building his mines can be discussed

    In contrast to Spider Mines which are set up bombs this is to be a thrown bomb or rather a team buffer which lays down a pack of explosive ammo which increases the splash of weapons and causes them to deal extra damage versus Armored targets. The Explosives Demolitions or rather the Demolitions himself has no talent that gives back to the team and this can be that talent.

    Pipe Bomb
    Essentially from Left4Dead, those who played L4D will familiarize themselves with it quickly and bond with it. A thrown explosive which will have creeps following it which then explodes a while later. Extra use for this is in use with Armageddon throwing the Pipe Bomb in its direction or at a Mine Field where creeps can then be blown to hell and back.

    Fire Vulnerability
    Stays as it is or becomes a passive aura for the Demolitions. The extra kick comes in with Armageddon and Hellpack.

    Just needs its current tweaks
  10. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Exploder could use a passive. Atm he's very energy intensive, almost moreso than fort. It also seems his later skills completely overpower his earlier skills, and he has little reason to even get satchels these days, what with Doomageddon.
  11. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I want me sticky bomb pretty please
  12. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Is Satchel a required talent for Demolitions in general?

    It is at the moment overshrouded by Armageddon but is it required in essence for the Explosives Demo?

    @Ghost: What does your sticky bomb entail? And please don't say "Well its a bomb that sticks to things". :p
  13. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Demo does lack a high damage single target skill.
  14. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    A One Shot One Kill type talent for the Demolitions? Would that fit into the Explosives? I cant fathom an explosion working on one target only unless I am understanding the post wrong.
  15. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Demo lacks any cross class synergy. I'd like to see at least one skill on exploder thats actually worth getting on foritude. I kinda wish I could stop getting exp after I max fort, and just let my allies level up more.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Replace Pipe Bomb with a HEAT disposable rocket. The Pipe Bomb would basically be a Mad Spark that exploded, and I feel that there's not nearly enough difference between projected mechanics and Mad Spark as it is now.
  17. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Very true and I also land in the same boat wishing he had cross tree synergy. Currently it is not happening because of Spider Mines and Build Mines being separate and yet 2 talents that must be taken in order for 1 of them to work "proper".

    EDIT: The Pipe Bomb can be tweaked to work for about 3-4 seconds only and not affect Heroic. Just there to help Demolitions get creeps to go where he wants them when other players don't know the first thing about kiting. It happens, you lay out the perfect trap and some players would decide to run away from it.
  18. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I dunno, Reaps. We've already got two skills that direct mobs (Mad Spark and Gravity Grenade). I don't really think we need a third one, because then we start seeing redundancy. The Explo Demo lacks a single-target skill, and I think a HEAT rocket from a Disposable Rocket Launcher would fit the bill, lorewise and balancewise.
  20. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Pipe Bomb is merely a suggestion and simply synergizes well with Spider Fields and Armageddon. Thats the plus side to it. In-game how often would it be that you have all 3 the directors in one game or even 2 of them?

    Me personally I am just against the idea of Demolitions having a single target damaging talent because he is an area of effect type class. There are several classes who possess such talents mainly being the Marksman who is in any way the single target killer and stealer.

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