Delta Commando Discussion

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Lord NiteShade, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Guess you win this time Kith.

    Until next time!

    Nic out.
  2. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    [video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1j7lyRnxVE[/video]
  3. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Congrats kithrixx on getting picked, once again you've proven your worth as a class designer. Great effort Nicarco, kith had much more experience with this than you and yet you were still able to put together a class design that came very close to being chosen.
  4. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Like I said first time.
    Just hope it isn't the last time.

    @nite Exactly what I was thinking. Always with the right picture/video. Thanks for that.
  5. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Dr. CLAW was a stud. Also.

    [img=400x300]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jtPzZT3X1oM/TRdoTY82WzI/AAAAAAAAADQ/oxxe8Z0-TII/s1600/jiraiya.jpg[/img]
  6. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Need some balancing inputs on The Horror. 2 Delta Commandos atm mean near perma blind on bosses on default design. I've reduced the effect duration on Heroics from 10 seconds to 7 seconds for now. Please give share your thoughts.

  7. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Well the simple step that I see, if that is your big concern, is just upping the energy cost. So sure, two Delta Commmandos might scare the ever loving bejeebus out of a boss. But it's a fight for time scenario where they can only do it a few times.

    Granted, Borrowed Time will wreck that plan. But if they level that much, eh. I feel like it's natural to allow them to do something pretty splashy.

    Another reason I don't think it will be THAT much of a problem:

    You blind the Boss. Someone shoots it. Because it has no attack it should run away a la SCV protocols. You may be able to chain the fear with two Delta Commandos. But because the boss is always running away necessarily you will reach a point where you can no longer do that. Specifically you have one boss who is feared and running away that you're trying to catch and kill... but he has a mob coming after you who is wholly unaffected. Either you need to slow down to deal with the mob negating the cheese advantage you sought to gain (Though you gain a less cheesy advantage of being able to whittle away a mob without the Boss jumping down your throat). Or you end up using the grenades on the Mob, which means you're talking about drawing in 3 or more Delta Commandos in order to exploit this mechanic. Which likely wouldn't happen outside of Survival (The Cheesiest of Cheese Modes), and even then means that you're kind of gimping your team by having a lot of disables which probably don't/shouldn't stack just to try to exploit one small thing.

    Anyway, typically you don't really want Bosses to run away. See for example the Eos fight, which spends the tail end of it attempting to force her to stay and fight. Though I suppose during Perses or Cerberus it would be a welcome choice.
  8. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Blind bosses are a small concern IMO if there's other creeps around that provide vision.
    During any boss fight in EC/AC this tends to be the case.
    That is from my understanding of using Psi Ops in EC with blackout vs say Erebos who will continue to whack you regardless.

    I would still feel that the attack disable lasts too long. Maybe 5 second disable, 10 second blind.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Again, the blind is for the players. The blind doesn't really effect bosses because of the shared vision of the Zombie faction. The blind is there to fuck with whatever allies you may hit so it encourages you to not hit your allies with it because they literally cannot do anything except run around in complete confusion and fear.

    Also, if we need to re-balance The Horror, leave the duration as-is and bump the cooldown up to 35 seconds. Bosses running away isn't helpful by any stretch of the imagination, so chaining it together is probably a bad plan anyways, like Arc mentioned. Having something that you're supposed to be killing running off into a corner is a pain to deal with (examples include Eos and Menos).
  10. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    The Horror also disables attacks (Blackout doesn't). 2 Delta means the boss is a piece of meat. Will get player feedback to balance.

    Atm, it doesn't seem to make units run away when attacked. Not sure how to enable the flee behavior too.
  11. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Well, if it helps you find the code for it, the behavior you are looking for is exactly what happens to marines during Reloading or Weapon switching who get attacked. So whatever code you have in there to disable the ability for Marines to attack is probably related to the behavior you want The Horror to inflict.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    I would like the duration to remain at 10 seconds. If we're going to nerf anything, I'd like it to be the cooldown, and possibly raise it to even 40 seconds. As an ultimate that's a disable, I'd really like for it to feel truly like an ultimate that you don't whip out very often, but when you do, the effects are felt keenly.
  13. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    so this new T3 is essentially a new, longer stun that has the potential to wreck havoc on allies?

    while stun keeps them in place and this one doesnt (makes a lot of difference e.g. eos fight) the negation of attack while still giving bosses vision means that the function is ALMOST the same way.
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Kind of sort of not really. While most stuns just stop everything, The Horror still leaves the possibility of movement. While it'd take some blind faith ba-dum-tsh on the part of your teammates, smashing The Horror in their faces while they're completely surrounded can have beneficial effects. While they won't be able to see or attack, they can run towards the general direction of the team while the effected enemies can be shot off of them because they're fleeing from all sources of attack. It also has potential for use vs. Cronus for when he's stuck on creep, because he can be hit with The Horror and then he'll busy himself with running from whatever's attacking him (see: the team) and off of the creep. The Horror can also be chained with Gravity Grenade to trap the helpless enemies in a vortex that could contain your crowbar-wielding Protection Assault or Order Flamethrower.
  15. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    if that is the case, then i see no balance issues with cooldown or energy cost. because if we were to say that you can perma-lock bosses down, then i can say the same applies to stunlock.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Stuns generally have a much shorter duration. For instance, the titular Stun ability of the Assault's only lasts for 4 seconds. The Horror lasts for 10 seconds, so I can easily see why the cooldown needs to be bumped up to 30 seconds or potentially even 40.
  17. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Yes, about the closest you really get to stunlocking now is having two Arms Assaults working together with the blood frenzy.
  18. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Where things come out in the wash for The Horror is that it doesn't stop bosses from moving, which can be a boon or a curse. It can be used to move bosses that need to be moved (Cronus, for instance), but it can also make it a pain in the ass to fight the boss because now they're running away. It's much less cut-and-dry than a stun.
  19. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Note that blinding a boss doesnt guarantee you blind all of it. Ie, I can all but forsee blinding demeter, but not his tentacles, same applies to Perses.

Share This Page