Delta Commando Discussion

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Lord NiteShade, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. DrCaptain
    • Donator

    DrCaptain Well-Known Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    It's unfortunate that I couldn't vote twice because there were two builds that really stood out to me.
  2. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Multiple voting is enabled, if you can't, it's a forum bug.
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  3. Sazier

    Sazier New Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread


    I feel like this would break Alpha Comp considering it's mostly camping.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    All of the campaigns are camping of some kind or another. The tradeoff of Adaptive Presence is that players would become damn near immobile very quickly, which can lead to getting everyone killed because nobody has the mobility to get off their asses and get away from whatever's attacking them. Can get people killed if used in the wrong place (for instance, Cronus).
  5. Sazier

    Sazier New Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Don't get me wrong I like Nicarco's tree, but this skill feels somewhat op for tier 1 and also kind off arbitrary at the moment. I mean that most skills try to explain how they do something especially aura skills; think Anticipation which says the marksman helps allies line up shots or Targeting Array which feeds allies better data.

    This just says it helps allies adapt...........Ya know like adapt.....like ahhhh ummmm ya know adapt.

    And pertaining to people getting trapped due to move speed. I don't know if I have ever seen a camped team need to run away in a situation where running away is at all viable.

    Quick everyone run! The ramp is clogged up with Agrons, slashers, and Hulks! We should totally just run away!
  6. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Hmm... I suppose the percent changes could be changed so that it takes a longer time to build up/vanish.

    The other point is that during camping, really, you don't need attack damage really that much since people will be killing the things long before they get to the marines anyway. The only time it might actually be useful is A: During boss fights, where it is really dangerous to become immobile most of the time (exceptions include demeter) and B: When you are holding off hordes without really "camping".

    Though hopefully with some changes alpha and ec will become less camping and more moving around and shooting.

    And the other problem is a lore problem. I'll get working on that.
  7. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Excepting something like, "Quick, Queen is running away, run her down!" Or "Quick, move because Ability put in Trollspawns and a Slasher popped up right under my feet!"
  8. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    That's what I'm hoping will get added to make camping less camping.

    I'm open to suggestions for a replacement, I'll work on the lore aspect of it now.
  9. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    It won't let me vote again :s
  10. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Poll Reset (hopefully) due to voting bug.
    Love this forum.
  11. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Multiple voting is disabled in this poll.
  12. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    I has 100% of the votes again :D

    Just a question. How long will the poll go for?
  13. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Multiple voting was the source of the issue.[hr]
    Till Ability decides on which one will definitively replace the Current SubComm.
  14. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    What happened to grandmarshal's Storm Commando idea? I can't seem to find it...
  15. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread


    Yesterday, 09:28 PM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 11:50 PM by grandmarshal.)

    I would assume this means I am to remove it from the list...

    Problem being since it wasnt the last option, removing it will reset it.......Again.
  16. YetiSwarm
    • Donator

    YetiSwarm Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    When I'm looking at these trees I'm thinking to myself 2 main questions: 1) would I ever play this over operations commando? - even if just in pub games, and 2) would I prefer this to the existing sub commando?

    For most of them so far I'm finding myself saying no to both. I currently like sub commando as is (besides the perception talent and I find combat hardened lackluster, but not a big issue), but it's really only for having some gimmicks in a random pub game - which I enjoy. At the same time, as most people have noted, operations commando probably will be the mainstay (at least for EC if not everything) and will continue to get the majority of the attention. So in order to vote for a change, I'm basically looking for something that can replace my gimmicky pub games with sub commando.

    I guess I'm not really satisfied with anything yet, but I'd have to say I'm leaning towards the Adaptation Commando by Nicarco for now. I'd be far more likely to play that one than the rest. I'm going to hold off on voting in case there are more submissions though.

    What I would love most and what would get my vote, would be a tree identical to the existing sub commando with only changes to perception and/or combat hardened.
  17. YetiSwarm
    • Donator

    YetiSwarm Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Well I guess now that I've stated specifically what I'd like, I should go ahead and make it rather than have someone else do my work for me. I've retained the skills Heightened Senses, Killing Me Softly, and Mind Meld and replaced the others with other people's ideas. As mentioned in my previous post I like the current sub commando, but I wanted it to be more team oriented as that was one thing Ability was looking for, so these ideas come from Ozymandias' Squad Leader class (old forum pg 1 and pg 2) and the discussion around that class. If you object to the use of your idea, let me know and I'll replace it. Additionally, all skills have been reworded and re-envisioned to create a unifying theme. Without further ado, I present the:

    Battle-Scarred Commando

    Lore
    The Battle-Scarred Commando is an elite fighting unit that has survived tour after tour of duty. From this experience he has learned a number of useful tricks, some mundane, some seemingly supernatural (although any good scientist would tell you there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything he does - they just don't know what it is yet), but all useful in battles of any sort. The Battle-Scarred Commando uses this knowledge primarily to assist his teammates, but refuses to reveal all his secrets, especially his flashier ones.

    Tier 1

    Heightened Senses
    Through his experience, the Battle-Scarred Commando can anticipate where his enemies will be with eerie accuracy. He feeds this information to his allies by updating their visual sensors and for 10 seconds he makes them appear to glow red. This red glow allows for the Commando and allies to better see their targets thus making these targets take 25% more damage from attacks made to them. 5 second cooldown. 10 energy cost. Affects invisible units as well - the Battle-Scarred Commando's anticipation of enemy movements does not depend on sight.

    Level 1 - Targets in a 12 area radius will glow red
    Level 2 - Targets in a 18 area radius will glow red
    Level 3 - Targets in a 24 area radius will glow red

    Team Moral - Passive
    The Battle-Scarred Commando's reputation proceeds him and whether his teammates are fresh recruits or hardened veterans, they know who he is and what he can accomplish. Just by being near the commando and his teammates, they know they have a better shot of surviving. When everyone is together, everyone covers everyone else, and companions make the journey less menacing.

    Level 1:+ 0.1667 Increased Life Regeneration per Person Nearby (all aura's effect allied units within a range of 2 from the Commando) (0.1667 ~ 1.334 life regen)
    Level 2:+ 0.0334 Increased Energy regeneration per Person Nearby (all aura's effect allied units within a range of 3 from the Commando) (0.0334 ~ 0.2672 energy regen)
    Level 3:+ 0.025 Increased move speed per person Nearby (all aura's effect allied units within a range of 4 from the Commando) ( 0.025 ~ 0.2 move speed bonus)

    Note this was taken from Arturia's post on Ozymandias' Squad Leader class from the old forum here. Also note, this skill is not as good for himself as combat hardened unless the commando is near a lot of allies, but is good for his team at all levels. Numbers were directly copied and are subject to balance change suggestions.

    Tier 2

    Killing Me Softly
    Much speculation exists regarding how the Battle-Scarred Commando performs the maneuver he calls Killing Me Softly. Some speculate that he possesses supernatural psionic powers, while others dismiss those as not watching him closely enough to see him move. Often the Battle-Scarred Commando uses this maneuver when he is frustrated an enemy is not being taken down quickly enough and sets forth to do it himself with gruesome results. However he does it, the Commando moves himself with incredible speed to a selected target within a 25 cast range, stabs at it with his bayonet severing a few vitals inside the target killing it instantly and without effort, and after killing the target the Commando just as quickly returns to his initial location. Cannot target Heroic units. 25 energy cost.

    Level 1 - 20 second cooldown
    Level 2 - 10 second cooldown

    Weapons care – Passive, global
    The Battle-Scarred Commando has picked up the tricks of manual reloading and with proper pupils, can teach this to his teammates.

    Level 1 – 33% faster manual reload time for self and allies if ≤2 rounds are left
    Level 2 – 67% faster manual reload time for self and allies if <5 rounds are left

    Note this is from Ozymandias' Squad Leader class (here) and is a great team buff that requires some level of micro skill for any player to benefit from and encourages manual reloads - always a good thing.

    Possible rework - Lore addition "Allies who do not remain under the watchful eye of the Battle-Scarred Commando and haven't been receiving their visual sensor update information lose the focus and precision necessary to perform this task." Effect - "This buff only applies to allies within the radius of the commando's Heightened Senses skill."

    Tier 3

    Mind Meld
    Another of the Battle-Scarred Commando's tricks that he keeps closely guarded is his Mind Meld. Speculation exists as to whether he merely persuades his enemies to fight for him or whether he somehow actually takes mental control of them, with the clear favorite being the supernatural explanation. With this, he dominates the mind of a target gaining control of it for a time. As he controls the mind he also controls its senses making it ignore pain.

    Level 1 - Gains control of a target unit for 30 seconds and increases its armor by 25. Also have a hidden bonus of raising the affected units attack by 50% and tripling its damage. Heroic units can't be controlled with Mind Meld.

    Change Log:
    3/9/12 - Changed name from Subtlety to Battle-Scarred
    - Updated numbers on Weapons care
    - Added lore section
    - Significantly reworked the description and lore behind each skill to unify and create a theme for the class besides a collection of nice skills.
    - Added an optional update to weapons care.
    - Previous skill descriptions mentioning psionic abilities have been downplayed and shrouded in mystery, but not eliminated.
  18. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Yeti I feel like yours is a combination of great skills that have nothing to do with one another. If there was some way to make some kind of synergy between the skills I would like it a lot. Also, the most recent version of weapons care requires vision by the mando and level 1 is less than or equal to 2 rounds left, and level 2 is less than 5 rounds left. (although the requiring vision was designed to synergize with helmet cams)
  19. YetiSwarm
    • Donator

    YetiSwarm Member

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Yeah, it's somewhat valid that they're lacking connection Ozy, but HS, Team Moral, and Weapons care are all team support (as either team buff or enemy debuff) and mind meld if used correctly can be great team support as a tank/enemy distraction. So the only one really completely left out is KMS which has nothing to do with anything, but is just so damn cool.

    It's definitely not perfect, but there's another option for consideration at least. I'll try to reword some of the skills and give them some flavor to connect them in that way at least.

    I'll update the numbers on the weapons care as those seem more appropriate anyway, but I'm not sure about the vision requirement without the helmet cam. Perhaps a requirement that the ally be in the radius of a currently active HS? This can both add synergy and conform more to your thoughts on the skill, but in a different setting.

    Edit: See updated post above - should seem much more unified now.
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: Official Subtlety Commando Rework Thread

    Throwing skills together for the hell of it and "because it's so damn cool" is how the Submando got to where he's at now.

    Just saying.

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