Credit Shop pricing

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ghost, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Can we put our heads together and come up with a reasonable pricing structure for the shop where people will actually go and buy something other than to:
    1. Try out the shop
    2. Troll buy for team and reload bank
    3. Purchase lifetime modifications
    4. Buy something (very few) which is priced reasonably

    While I appreciate credit gain has been upped not so long ago, right now people still don't bother really buying anything except Stinger or XS in the shop for whoring.

    Of the other items, the only reasonably priced item IMO is antivenom where you get 5 for 10 credits.

    Even magazines cost horrendous amounts of credits for a single 3 stack.

    Part of the problem I would think is that the minimum price is currently set at 15 (with exception of AV).

    If we look at utility, I would for example price following items in this manner to have a better match between Supply/Demand:

    AV (5) - 9 credits
    Mag (3) - 4 credits
    Box (3) - 13 credits
    Flare (3) - 4 credits
    Gauss Rifle - 5 credits
    Flamethrower - 6 credits
    M45 - 5 credits
    Bandage (2) - 6 credits
    Medkit (3) - 6 credits
    SMG - 15 credits
    HK - 17 credits
    M5 - 16 credits
    Shotgun - 60 credits
    CG - 90 credits
    C2 - 4 credits
    C4 - 16 credits
    FMJ - 30 credits
    HP - 40 credits
    AP - 35 credits
    HE - 32 credits
    Stinger - 250 credits
    XS4 - 175 credits
    HCC - 95 credits
    Barrett - 115 credits
    Arc - 90 credits
    NHA - 50 credits
    Thermal - 8 credits
    Ocular - 4 credits
    CMA - 35 credits
  2. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Don't price the SMG so low. That's about the best whore gun there is until the airlock waves. It's even worse in newbie mode and a particular favorite to Bacana and other players with false banks.
  3. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    It is a good whore gun only with HBS/AP though IMO, especially in NM and loses effectiveness once chapter 2 arrives.
    I would agree that it is very powerful in Recruit Mode, but what gun isn't powerful there?

    Something to keep in mind also that prices are set regardless of game mode and storyline, so the price has to reflect that.
    Just because an item is too good for Recruit mode, does not mean it needs to be priced that high that noone would buy it in any storyline.

    Similarly, we cannot price items based on hackers' preferences - that's like waving the white flag towards them. Hackers will be there until something is done about them. If they want, they can always hack their credits back regardless of how high you set the price of the SMG.

    That said however, I am looking for input on everyone's thoughts on prices which will make any of the items a wortwhile buy in any storyline and game mode, but with particular view towards vet+ and NM modes.
  4. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Don't mistake my reasoning. I merely listed reasons as to why the SMG should have a higher price. If you wish to refute that then list reasons as to why it should be cheaper, not list scenarios as to how I could be wrong.
  5. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I do believe though that that is the same reasoning you used in your post to attempt to refute mine, is it not?

    However, the price I set is primarily based on the fact that it is just as useful as a gauss rifle (in terms of opposite use, being good against stuff the gauss rifle sucks against, and bad against stuff the gauss shines against) while still generally being a low value weapon against high armor targets, just like the gauss rifle.

    It is however more rare than the gauss and not commonly available, which is why the price tag was set at the current level.
    It is also marginally less useful than either HK/Pulse but of the same rarity level which is why the cost differs by 2 and 1 respectively.
  6. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    A fair point.
  7. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The prices are fine as they are, IMO. The credit store is capable of undermining an entire facet of the game (See: searching for gear) and I don't think that needs to become easier to do than it already is.
  8. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    To be honest, I would have rather had some of the Credit Shop ideas in Flint's old topic (Before it was implemented), than purely buying up gear. I would have thought it'd be more interesting to have modification gear for weapons instead.

    But alas, the road not taken.
  9. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    SMG - 15 Credits.

    My response: No, no, no, no.

    Combat Rifles grenade whoring everything is bad enough, but give them an SMG to start and suddenly you have extreme level differences between a Combat Rifle, and some newbies.

    Its dirt cheap, cheap enough that you can easily regain the amount you spent on it in a Public Game, and its the perfect whore weapon in Public Games, that I see newbies occasionally ask for the SMG (Its happened to me a few times). Its not something I want to see at such a price.
  10. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    That and L3 are better off removed from shop.
  11. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Again the concern seems to be Public Games.

    Regardless of weapon or class, anyone who has become good at NOTD can whore all the xp they want in a Public Game. Giving them a SMG won't change that.
    Heck I outlevel everyone by solo medicing (Field Aid) in a pub or as Assa Tank. Having a SMG wouldn't make that much faster. Usually I am level 9 after eggs

    Remember the the shop requires 5k XP for guns, so its not like everyone is going to start with SMG.

    Give it some thought in regards to prices for vet+, NM, Alpha and Sec games as well as Survival.

    Would these prices make you think about using the shop rather than save up your credits for mods? That is what is really the central point here. Making people think it is worthwhile to spend credits on a single game item but slow their credit accumulation as a result.

    For instance, someone at 5k will gain around 9 credits per Pub and around 32 credits in a NM. You bet they won't go and buy a Gauss Rifle or a Magazine at the current price. At these prices it might be more os a toss-up.

    Noone balances core game concepts around Public Games when these concepts affects every mode and story the same.
  12. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Public games constitute 60% or more of total games and are what makes NOTD a successful feature map. Without those public games you disdain, NOTD will slip in rank and hurt us long-term. Your entire post has the taint of elitism in it, which I'm assuming is unintended. You cannot tailor an entire facet of the game to the highest level players.
  13. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    The very nature of the SMG makes it completely overwhelming in Public Games, probably just as Overpowered as HMG was.

    The rest of the modes nobody buys anything anyways as far as I see. Survival is usually to Gain Credits, so spending would be counter-intuitive. Apollo Security is the only one that may Buy a Stinger, but that is if an HMG drops from Seth.

    I can care less that it loses its effectiness in Nightmare, and many other modes; in that case it wouldn't be bought. Its specifically the whore weapon of Easy company Newbie Mode. An SMG WILL make you outlevel your allies, specifically because of the nature of the weapon, and the nature mode. EC Newbie is mostly unarmored / low armored enemies, aside from the hulks that come from the Civilian Transport (Disregard it, its an optional mission anyways) & the airlock wave. The only time a person wouldn't be able to get away freely using it would be during Bosses. All bio-domes have light enough spawns; Black Ops easily get mowed down, most waves are extremely lightly armored, and are bulk spawns. The niche of the SMG? Take out lightly armored enemies in bulk, Fast.

    The SMG is a weapon that is known to Whore like nothing before.

    Your proposed change has the greatest impact on public games. People are less hesitant to buy in other modes, usually by virtue of it being an organized group game, and the lack of a need to purchase items because of the availability of them around the map. The accessibility is only an issue in Newbie mode, where some of those items don't appear, unlike in other game modes.

    The SMG shouldn't be worth 15 Credits. I can purchase one and come with a net profit of ~5 credits when I pub, and I don't pub for Credits. 50 is more appropriate. And Gauss Rifle isn't purchasable from what I recall. Of course, given your new shop prices, I would just buy an AP & SMG and wreck havoc for 50 credits. 200~300 credits later, I have the CP I need for the class of my choice, and can easily regain all of those credits through a single game of Survival.
  14. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Oh what would happen if the credit store was disabled in recruit. I suspect massive butthurt, but it would be for the better.
  15. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Simple solution. Practical. Hell, not like Newbie is so difficulty you need to go buying up stuff that doesn't drop during it.
  16. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    I see no other excuse other than "troll pubs."

    Newbie is not some dumping ground for bored "veterans." It's supposed to be a place for new players to be introduced to the game. Having some hacker (or asshole) buy an assload of items and whore all game teaches nothing, and in all likelyhood dooms the team in the long run, as he's going to make reaching levels properly nigh impossible.

    Meanwhile, there's things like "buy 8 stingers." This throws off map balance so hard it makes me puke.

    As far as I care the pet store can stay, the items truck should be removed from recruit. Anyone who would complain in the general discussion only proves my point.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Nite is right. We really don't need the credit store at all for Newbie. The few times I've bought the Shotgun and went to town with a pub, well... even though it's fun to mow down everything, it just sets a bad example for the newbies. It would also neuter hackers considerably, because hackers primarily reside in the public spotlight.
  18. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Have to agree, credit shop can not even be used to a large degree (no weapons) by most pub players to begin with, and those under 5k almost certainly do not appreciate its uses nor will use it in any useful manner.
  19. Seeky

    Seeky New Member

    We could go with Nite's idea or we could disable certain items from the shop when its EC newbie. Things that no longer spawn in them such as CG, SMG and Barret.
  20. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Would personally go with complete shop disablement.

    Number 1 supporting factor for me is the newbies of course. I could go on length about this but I think most, if not all already know my stance with regards to newbie mode.

    Second would the hackers' incentive.
    If you don't get a clean standing with the community, you will be deprived of a lot of things.

    Third is that there is no real use for the shop in Newbie mode as mentioned as well. There is nothing that needs purchased equipment in this mode.

    If legit players wish to buy mods/kittens/colors/BO insignia or other permanent paraphernalia, I'm sure it'd be easy enough to ask people (even just 1 other person) to help you access the shop. :D

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