Community Watch Discussion and Rebuttal Thread

Discussion in 'Archive' started by YetiSwarm, Feb 7, 2012.

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  1. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    See Biohazard's post above yours where he played with him in march, saw him at 22k xp and gold medals in navy cross etc just like in your screen.
    He also remembers playing survival with him, which is proven by the screenshot Immortal provided in his first post.
    Just because someone's been reported doesn't mean ppl won't play with them and his current xp and medals were made to look legit.
    So you say there's 2 immortals with same xp but diff medals at same time but ppl only ever see one?
    The other thing comes from his post where a 60K guy in his own words asked him about his stats. There weren't that many 60Ks at that stage so I'll ask around. My guess is Gizmo or icekup.

    Also thanks for digging you own grave with that screenshot Immortal. Nm speed wins aren't in localvoid's code and ec pub speeds also count towards total easy co wins until a week ago and yours show massively more ec speed tham basic ec wins when you only have 60 more games played (not won) between your screen and my screen (of you just returning). That is over 50 ec wins unaccounted for.

    Furthermore, your -w adds up completely to your CAR and given that you said you go way back and had screens of yourself (supposedly) from the old versions before -w was implemented, I'm going to call bs on that as well.

    Add to that, in the screen I posted of you, you had 22707 credits total and 2707 unspent and 2 weapon mods.
    Let's just say its pretty impossible to get that given overflow.
  2. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    However NiteShade claims that the new "-w X" command is bugged and cause players to lose alpha/Apollo nightmare speed wins. This has happened to some players on NA, I'm not sure if it is the same for EU players.

    Immortal, you have been accused of being the person on Reaper's photo because your experience adds up.
  3. Immortal

    Immortal New Member

    The 60K guy was some "Veteran" i think, i dont recall the name.
    But why is that important anyway?
    I did not use it as an argument, just a side story, may him be who ever you want..

    About the thing you brought up about biohazards post.
    He was just sayin he "thinks he saw" different medals on another or the same guy called Immortal.
    I know you and Biohazard are good mates (i guess) and there are no screenshots or anything.
    So i say he is just backing you up without adding any relevance to the discussion (no offense).
    So i wouldnt call this legit information/evidence.

    And by the way I'm not claiming anything.
    You always start your argumentation by saying "so you claim there are 2 Immortals bla bla".
    I dont claim anything.
    I'm just saying im not a hacker and ive shown evidence and effort to prove it.
    The rest i dont know a fuck about.

    And seriuously i dont see the hack.
    I won 2 golden Legion of Merits and 1 golden Bronze Stars TODAY (and bronze medal of honor btw).
    You can have the replays if u want.
    So if you think i could not achieve those medals and thats why i am a hacker, you are just wrong.
    Considering me playing for quite a while, there is nothing hacked in my stats.

    For the credits i might say this is not my first NOTD account.
    I played NOTD from another Computer for quite a time, got like 5K xp and tried out some stuff, buying a smg in recruit, things like that.
    Shop was enabled in recuit in earlier versions.
    I had to move to a new location, lost my SC2bankfile to new computer (didnt know anything about it at that time) and started over.
    Thats why i didnt spend any more credits on equipment on my new account, to progess to mods.

    But I spend some credits lately to perform better in NM games.

    To the other post stating:

    "Immortal, you have been accused of being the person on Reaper's photo because your experience adds up."

    How so? Did you just multiply the average xp by games played?
    You call that an argument?
    So if im going to improve on my average xp, you cannot use this argument anymore right?
    Okay i will work on that!
    Take the stats of another 100% legit player (non veteran) and do your math again, i would like to see the results.
    Would like to know if his experience adds up to...
    Again, no offense to your comment nor intention, but i dont see the argument.

    I have to admit i really dont get what you are trying to say here?
    So NM speed wins are not "in the code", that means they dont get saved to the bankfile or what do you mean?
    If so that solves the issue about me not having NM speed wins, therefore my wins are legit.
    Really dont see your point here, thats a classical selfown.

    And i did not "dig my own grave" or whatever.
    I have nothing to hide or cover up for. Feel free to check out my stats at any time, just pm me.
    But are you really serious about calling me hacker because my Combat Action Ribbon are close to my overall wins??
    Legit stats = hacked stats? "OKAY".
    I dont check my wins every game and i dont know about the win counting system changed or not changed
    or whatever so i cannot really argue with you here.
    I never expected to have to reveal/defend my "notd life career" to the puclic.
    But this thing made me curious so i did some "-w" runs on other players today, guys who have like 20k or 40k.
    All the stats looked the same to me, there was no adding up or whatever.
    I have to admit I dont really understand what your are tring to say here...
    But i think you really lost it.

    By the way, believe it or not I just saw even Reaper can check out my full game listings (means they are NOT deleted or whatever),
    but me myself and I are still not able to see them.
    If i click on "show more" nothing happens, i can only see past 10-11 weeks, nothing more.
    Im just saying this to show i wasnt lying about it in my earlier post.

    I agree with Reaper, this discussion is becoming more and more thrashtalking without any new relevance.

    I dont see any new arguments in your post, just more suppositions.
    You say legit stats = hacked stats because they are legit.
    You use a typo as an argument against me. (some posts ago)
    You are always saying that "so you claim 2 Immortals, 3 Immortals, 4 Immortals" but i did not claim anything at all.
    You are reading things i did not write at all.
    This is no discussion, thats just thrashtalking/bad mouthing.

    But if it makes you that happy just put me on the list. Earn your cookie here.

    I would not have posted on this forum if i had known about this ignorance before.

    I wasted some real time and efforts here to make a good and solid statement to honor you guys work detecting hackers
    (im serious) and to restore my reputation as a player of course. But im really sick of it, its not leading anywhere, its not working at all.
    Im still trying to understand why i have to defend myself to a guy who has every medal maxed out but claims not to be a hacker,
    but accusing my account with 10% of those medal to be hacked.
    I just smell a lot of nerdrage here.

    I enjoy this game for its challenge not its community, obviously, or for any "stat hunting/posing thing", look at my shiny medals XOXOXO or thrashtalking bullshit.
    Do whatever you want, i dont give a fuck anymore. I have better things to do.

    Have a nice day.
  4. David

    David Well-Known Member

    When'd you buy your first weapon mod?
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Well, the problem goes to the forum being filled with NA players. There are very few EU players on the forum.

    I'm not too sure about what to make of this, but lets think about it like this. Lets say the Screenshot of a player named Immortal on EU never existed. Just ignore it for a moment.

    Ask yourself: is this Immortal you see here, unfamiliar? Does anybody know him? Given his stats, a fair amount of people should have played with him and have known him; whether or not they liked him is a different matter.

    Looking at his stats, what part of it is abnormal?
    2 weapon mods? I have 2 as well, and have had 2 since around 25k, so I see no problem there.
    Combat Action Ribbon? His wins add up to 261; equal to level 5 car, 2 ticks; he has won 1/3 of his games.
    Superior Service medal can't really be measured, but considering his survival wins, he probably gets a decent way into Survival when he plays it.
    NC, Exped, DSM, Lifesaving aren't especially high; they come off as reasonable.

    I'll be honest, looking at it from that perspective, just by those 2 screen shots, I don't see what was modified. If you can get a screenshot of your CP, I'd be able to determine if I saw you as a legitimate player or not, but judging from those screen shots, I see nothing wrong.

    Referring to a very old Screenshot without any way to confirm that the person in that screenshot is the same as the accused, is pointless. There is no way to prove, without a doubt, that the immortal in that Screenshot, and this Immortal, are both the same. Until then, this is all pointless. There are many people who have the name Immortal and reside on EU; what if that screen shot is from one of them who no longer plays, or is of one who had a change of heart and deleted it, or had a name change? Then you just wrongfully banned a person on circumstantial evidence.

    This is no different then the trial of Tom Robinson. Both involve circumstantial evidence, and a grave punishment. Everyone is siding with Ghost because he is more known and is charging a person with bank mutilation, while nobody sides with the Immortal, because he is being accused of bank mutilation. In the end, its likely based on that circumstantial evidence, he'll end up being tossed anyways, because people don't want to side with one who is being accused of bank mutilation.

    We shouldn't hold old screenshots against a person, unless we can prove that they are indeed, the person in the screenshot, without a doubt.

    Though, this is probably a thought: Couldn't we kindly ask a Moderator To check if the IP address of Immortal matches that of FireBrandXL? Sure IP addresses can be changed, but what are the chances of their IP addresses being changed to match? I'm pretty sure a moderator could do that.

    PADDYPOWER New Member

    I've played with Immortal quite a few times on EU. The first time I encountered him, it was in Pub. He was a sub marksman and was always calling everyone noobs, even though I was the only other player who had /any/ exp. He ended up dying and I left the game after we were overran at Domes.
    I then played and he was a Psi Ops. He tk'd two newbies because one stole the Laser Rifle. He then Inceptioned and TK'd everyone.

    I've played multiple Alpha/Alpha NM with him, and he seems to be okay with more Vet players. I agree with the post above too. People need to take a neutral stance rather than siding with all the Awesome Watchers when the words Bank Mods come up.
  7. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden


    It actually doesn't matter anymore if they are one and the same or not. His credits and -w record actually prove him to have cheated as I outlined.
    i.e. more speed wins than normal ec wins even though that was fixed recently (previously you got 1 ec win for each speed win too)
    And the mods themselves aren't the issue. The issue is having exact lifetime credits - mods = current credits. You don't get lucky twice with having exactly 10k at game end. You usually get some overflow which counts towards your max.

    I would much appreciate that you properly read my statements and attempt to understand them before jumping on the opposite bandwagon, to save everyone some embarassment.

    I should also note that when he took those screens, it seems to have taken him 2 hours of ~9 solo games @2 mins each to take them.

    As for the IPs, I had Shooz run the check. Both from Germany, but the other one was from so long ago that it is of course different.
  8. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Meh, as far as credits go, if such a case of overflow occurs, depending on the game mode it happened in, you could just buy the mod, flat out since the Pet Store does't close. (easy company's is always present AFAIK)

    Regardless, This easy co normal-speed winbug does indeed stand out as a sore thumb, pointing him out as a illegitimate player. and his typing method mimics that of FireBtrandXL.

    Call down the thunder?
  9. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    The EC pet store is closed after the 6th minute these days in EC. Not sure about survival but would think so.
    He's already banned as of yesterday.
  10. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Starbuck, NA

    Good eye Meg, I didn't even realize he had already been posted on here. You're going to make a good little college student.

    I noticed Starbuck had level 3 NC and Exp medals while only having a level 2 LoM - very suspicious. A check of his win record and cp record (see screenshots in Community watch) show he has very little of both. His lifetime credits earned sit at around ~2k. Three possible explanations for this:
    1)He is either a very old player
    3)Both 1 and 2
    Luckily he has an extremely complete history dating back 96 weeks where I presume the game was just called NOTD:
    He played 1 game of NOTD 96 weeks ago and didn't touch it again until 55 weeks ago when he started playing like crazy.

    I counted about 38 pages of 10 notd games from weeks 55 to 39, after which he's been very sporadic in his SC2 playing. From weeks 39 to present I counted around 110 NOTD games played putting him at a conservative estimate of 500 games played. The screenshots in the community watch put him at over 850 games played which clearly points at a hacked bank (category 3 above). I got Arturia to count as confirmation and have screenshots/video of entire history if you need it Ext. Another vet fallen from grace (except nobody remembers him)
  11. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    This is not a vet that has fallen from grace because I don't remember him at all lol. When NOTD first came to NA, it was called NOTD US not NOTD NA.

    Also, there were not many players from what I can recall that had over 10k xp during that period of time and when I mention that time, I refer when NOTD NA was NOTD US. Another reason to have NITESHADE when you need him. It was only a handful if I can remember correctly.

    This currently seems like someone that has hacked NOTD and has somehow tried to conceal it. I will put him in the brig to be prosecuted and will suggest a ban of at least 2 weeks for now.

    If Starbuck is able to explain all of this then please make a case for yourself here in the community rebuttal thread because I do believe you have the right to that at the least.

    Thank you Lacus and David for keeping the community clean. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

    *note Before I became NA Warden, I was making a case against Bacana for a similar reason. I do have some evidence but not enough to necessarily prosecute him. If anyone here can help make my case against him it would be much appreciated. I will post what I have on him after I finish processing Starbuck.
  12. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    This is what I complied on Bacana from forum searching and my own evidence.

    Written by Yeti Swarm in Community Watch Thread on 02-07-2012 at 09:08PM
    Bacana, NA Server

    If I'm wrong, and people know he's Legit, let me know. But he seemed to just appear overnight at about 15k, and definitely lacks the skills that any NOTDer (Even a pub hero) should have with nearly 200 plus games under their belt. I seem to remember him just over a week ago around 200 XP as well.

    01-07-2012, 10:33 PM

    (01-07-2012 08:57 PM)ArcturusV Wrote: [ -> ]I'm also going to guess an average XP of 99 per game is a dead giveaway.

    Anyway, it seems lately that I'm seeing a lot of hacked banks that are around 9.8 k to 18 k or so. Or at least suspicious since I've never seen the players (And I do pub somewhat often), and their skill levels don't really reflect the XP at all. I'm talking Ajax level bad. This would be one of them that I suspect of being a hacker, though I have no direct, obvious proof. Might be a sign that the hackers are getting wise that The Man inserted some obvious Hack detection.

    Bacana, NA Server

    If I'm wrong, and people know he's Legit, let me know. But he seemed to just appear overnight at about 15k, and definitely lacks the skills that any NOTDer (Even a pub hero) should have with nearly 200 plus games under their belt. I seem to remember him just over a week ago around 200 XP as well.

    Went through some old replays, he was sitting around 8k early December and 11k late December. I've never seen him before 8k and I was a bit unsure at the time as he is an extremely poor player like you said.

    I'll agree that a lot of people are popping up 10-20k that I've never seen before and all I play are pubs.
    01-08-2012, 06:01 AM
    Agree on both aceace and Bacana. I stopped playing for a week and both magically gained 15k or more.

    This is my post and the community Replies in regards to Bacana written in the community watch on 03-29-2012, 12:16 Am.

    The Final Nail in Bacana's Coffin. Anyone who doesnt think hes a hacker, well prepared to think otherwise.

    He got kicked out of a EC nightmare game because I told one of the players in that game that he was a hacker. So he goes on NOTD chat screaming what the hell and that hes not a hacker and that hes been playing since beta.

    So I called him out on it and asked him to name some veteran players. He was unable to and to add on top of that he "claimed" that he saw ppl over 100k during beta with weapon mods and what not. I said there's only a handful currently over 100k (so thats b.s right there) and weapon mods were not introduced til later on during NOTD's inital development. I also know that there was no one during beta that had over 100k (well except for a guy named Omegaman from what Niteshade told me).


    Now here is a link to the community rebuttal thread where HamCient made his case FOR Bacana. The conversation goes to page 19 and this link is from page 18.

    Rebuttal Thread for Bacana from page 18 - 19

    This is one of the further updates that was posted later on for Bacana written by YetiSwarm and the reply to YetiSwarms post from Niteshade,myself, and Arturia. I also posted the link for anyone that wants to view the replay.

    This is the update with the link, please read starting from page 25 with YetiSwarm's post to the beginning of page 26

    Anyways, this is what I complied for my case against Bacana. I honestly do believe that he has hacked and I have made the case for it from this Post.

    NA Warden
  13. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    I believe he has hacked because to get that many credits, his superior service medals should be at least level 2. And if it was from nightmare runs, he would have higher medals and experience. Also from the screenshot, he should've known all that basic stuff and that SMG shouldn't be spammed on hulks.
  14. Starbuck

    Starbuck New Member

    I'm tired of the questions of my legitimacy. This is beyond ridiculous. SOME people have jobs that require you to be away form your computer for more than a week. This games as old as SC2 itself almost and if a vet can't play pub matches in peace. (With the ocasional alpha) Then somethings wrong. REALY WRONG. Don't come calling me out because some people have nothing other to do than "investigate" MY play-history to try and validate something that is completely false simply to make themselves feel like an important member of a community. Listen, I've been on this game longer than most, am I elite? No. Did I have a good run with some good players? Hell yes. What do I have to do to prove my legitimacy because this is getting old quick. "I don't play like a vet player." Garbage. Look at my raiting, look at my Karma. I play with scrubs everychance i get and STICK in the loby. I try my best to help players at 500xp 2000xp 10000xp everychance i get. You can sit on your forums and try to put me in a bad light all you want. You'll see my record holds true, and you CANNOT label me a hacker simply because of my medals. "Well your -w is low" So it is. You know what, BIG DEAL. When I played this game there was no such thing as -w, and in its early stages it was buggy at best. David you've played ONE game with me and the 1st thing you ask me, "Starbuck, who are you?" Already trying to label me a hacker without seeing how I play, how I act, nothing of the sort but on the premise of "I haven't seen you beffore" Well bucko it's a big world out there and you probably haven't seen me because I wasn't playing much in the past few months now was I. "Your cp is low" Well last I checked you have a chance to lose a Cp every win, and if you're playing a different class everygame to accomidate for what's missing in the team you have a hard time building cp now do ya. "You're credits are low" And? If you kill'd cronos (Twice mind you) You were doin good! Credits wern't as easy to get back then like they are now. Cred gliches were the ONLY way to realy pump them out, unless you have 8 ppl with a solid stratagey for survs, which I did not, and SHOWS in my surv medals being patheticly low. So I ask again, HOW is there ANY way to legitimize myself. I suppose it's hard to bellieve somebody could not give a dam about the forums and just play the game is it. You want to talk to me about it? Fine, I'll log into the vent ANYTIME to talk, that is, if you "Gracefull" players are willing to talk to a "Fallen" player. This games been out awile, and it is completely possible for somebody to have grinded themselves to where I am now.
  15. Pyromaniac

    Pyromaniac Well-Known Member

    I don't see Starbuck being any trouble to the community
  16. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    I must thank you Starbuck for coming on to the forums for proving your case. However, the only reasons for these accusations is because in the past there have been many players who have started NOTD only to later on inflate their stats using hacks or w.e.

    Please keep in mind that I never accused you of hacking as I never seen you play. I only saw that you were posted and I didn't really see many players of the community vouching for your innocence. Therefore, I had to investigate the matter myself before I made a real decision myself.

    Also, alot of the players here post such suspicions because we are trying to keep the game clean and free of hackers and cheaters. Now I am not defending anyone's action in regards to your case.

    Anyways, it seems your story checks out in regards to what you said about NOTD's past. I will say that NOTD is not as old as Starcraft itself because NOTD did not come to NA server until a couple months after NOTD was released. I believe it was late 2010 around Novemember if I remember correctly.

    As long as Starbuck was able to defend himself that was similar to the case of Blazncheetah then that is more than enough for me.
  17. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Starbuck, by viewing your NOTD history there is no question you've played a lot of NOTD and very early -- the majority of your games were from a year ago. This describes your extremely inaccurate -w, -cp and credits. Based on your history and the time you put into the game I almost considered letting you go.

    However, the evidence speaks for itself. Your history is missing ~300-400 games. I'm one of the most objective people on here so don't take anything personally. I'm not looking at skill, medals, credits or class points. For the sake of being as fair as possible I'll try to get Ext. all the evidence so he's not just taking our word for it.
  18. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I vouch on what David has said in regards to Starbuck's Match History. Dating back 96 weeks, I counted roughly 450 games, but even then, I wouldn't give him over 500 games of Night of the Dead logged in his Match History.

    Just a side note here. This isn't about how you treat new players, how you play in the game, your game knowledge, game skill, habits, trivia, and how long you date back. It does not matter how knowledge or how skillful you are. It is about if you modified your StarCraft 2 Bank File for NOTD, intentionally or unintentionally, and gave yourself stats you did not earn. Don't shift the focus away from that.

    As far as I know, we haven't had a legitimate person with a high amount of exp that they earned, modify their bank to lower their stats (i.e. reduce their EXP or took away things that they had earned, bank deletion excluded).

    And just a slight notice: I'm restarting over at 0 exp again due to changing computers + lost USB drive and a hard drive failure.
  19. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    wow your even more unlucky then I am
  20. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I've only lost a grand total of 44k exp or so. Twice at 3k, once at 5k, and now at 31kish.
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