Chem Expert - Juggernaught Talent Replacement

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ability, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Hi Peera,

    Do you have a replacement talent for Chem Expert's Juggernaught (Tier 2 ulti) in mind? It's currently a placeholder slot in our map. We talked last time that the original talent would have been too OP with Technician.

  2. Mirage
    • Donator

    Mirage ಠ_ಠ What are you looking at?

    % chance to take no damage?

    Or some kind of built in kinetic armor (The damage over hard-cap is reduced to whatever)
  3. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Can someone post up what the Juggernaut Talent currently is here? That way I can look at what it's trying to accomplish and maybe suggest something that fits thematically without hitting the concerns stated.
  4. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Peera's currently away. Didn't you read that his CPU died?
  5. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    I believe that it is similar to TTD in that it turns the chem expert into this almost invincible thing for some duration, with some extra effects added in.

    And Nite, Peera can still go on his laptop, so evidently accessing the forums isn't really a problem for him, although he might be too busy to actually do so at the moment.
  6. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Ah. And if I remember he had the ability to cast it on other targets. So the idea was giving a March of the Machine Technician could effectively get the Time to Die buff on top of it. Turning it into well... probably one of the best combinations of both Tanking and DPS, period.
  7. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    And I thought motm was already too op as a dps tank...

    But anyway, I think a replacement would be a some sort of mass crowd control skill, unless the skill needs to be a supporting role or something. I could think of one, but I'm not really familiar with the chem expert to decide the general direction for the ulti skill.
  8. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well, if I remember correctly the tree on the left had two good Area Denial skills, various chemical bomb stuff. And the right tree was all about giving people Min/Maxes. Things like lowering their attack priority (Last targeted) but also cutting their DPS.

    But my memory is a bit sketchy.
  9. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Mine isn't.

  10. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Maddening Haze:
    AoE Effect Skill:

    Chem. Experts releases a Chemical that interferes with the Marines Aggression Inhibitors, causing a spike in rage and murderous intent in the area. Affects Allies and Enemies alike; 25% Reduced attack damage, 50% increased attack speed, 20% Increased move speed, 3 points of armor are removed. AoE Cloud lasts 20 seconds before dissipating. 60 second cooldown, 50 energy cost. Marines Retain the effect for 20 seconds, being in the cloud refreshes the duration of the skill.

    Strategic use could be to reduce an enemies damage enough that your tank's armor can make it deal much less damage, making the attack speed of the enemy irrelevant as it deals no damage, and providing an Team AoE DPS increase as another use, and also further being used to help your team move rapidly from location to location.

    - Reduce Enemy's damage enough for Armor to reduce it to 0.
    - Increase Team DPS @ cost of Ammo.
    - Help Team Mobilize from location to location by providing a movement speed increase.[hr]
    Nite, that is the cache, isn't it? There were changes, Muscular Augments was removed from what I recall, and AV became the cure to most of his effects. While it does provide a decent back-ground of what it was, an active was removed, which I believe to have been Muscular Augments in favor of a passive (5 actives in 1 tree), Pretty sure the same happened to the other tree to another skill.
  11. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    If antivenom was meant to remove most of the effects:

    Venom Augmentation

    Injects target creature with a prototype venom. The target spreads stacks of venom on attack and gains increased attack damage against targets with venom per stack. The target also gains 1 stack of venom everytime he attacks a target. This effect is removed by the super antivenom thing the chemical expert has, and the technician does not benefit from the effects while under the effect of closed cockpit.

    I'm not good with statistics, just putting the idea out there.
  12. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I seem to recall there was some "Shrink Ray" thing too. Don't remember the Smoke Grenade. Also some "Chemical Armor" thing.

    I can't say which version was the final one. My mind slips sometimes like that.

    As for tier three replacement.

    Presuming we want it to stay in Theme and be a "Super Soldier Drug" idea, how about something like this?


    30 Energy. 3 casting radius, single target only. No cool down time.

    Increases weapon and ability damage by 25%. Reduces cool downs on talents by 25%. Increases marine's armor by 10. Marine loses 10% of their max HP every 5 seconds. Can be removed by Med-X or Medic's Antivenom.
  13. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    There was a Shrink Ray (Smaller, Faster, Less damage & Threat, not sure about HP), something that was proposed that reduced armor to 0 with a damage increase, and Chemical Armor.
  14. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    The Shrinker will reduce a unit's size by 50% (as well as it's hitboxes) (allies and enemies alike) save for enemy bosses), the shrinked unit enjoys bonus to movement speed and threat level reduction, but suffers reduced attack damage and range.

    The main good point it can be used is during HAL Laser for sec team, as it's threat level is reduced, allowing them to bypass other possible zombies, and with the speed and reduced hitboxes would allow them to easier dodge the lasers

    It can be also used to neutralize any unit's dps capabilities as their range and attack damage is heavily reduced. (I am stll not sure should it affects bosses for a short period of time or not at all)

    The skill itself has very low cd and can be used on multiple targets at once (With energy being main issues)

    Penance was to massively increase one unit's dps by giving them damage and attack speed boost while ultimately negates it's hit points regeneration and instantly reduces it's armor to 0 as well as halved it's movement speed

    It can be used on both allies and enemies alike, for allies to boost dps capabilities while on defensive, or on enemies for kiting purpose - I'm thinking it can be used to great effect on bosses like Heph or Hades First Form (as itself lacks any conventional weapons)

    The skills that would likely be replaced for Passives are

    1. Inbound Sickness - For it's overwhelming ff-capabilities, and it's too much identical to most aoe skills, it should be replaced with a skill that allows adding venom stacks in some ways (because the higher venom stacks enemy has, the more damage they take from Melt! and Scorched Earth! - To the point it can be twice the dmg of Lv.3 OSOK)

    2. Chemical Armor - I'm thinking of ms boost aura because apparently we have none, seeing how foresight is quite effective, I'd like to think ms boost aura for allies would come in handy, but may also opts for reduced reload time or something that is not bland old stuffs (dps increase watever~ there's also one too many of 'em)
  15. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    How about a passive speed boost while on creep like zombies.
  16. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    That sort of makes the skill bad for the team, because the chem expert will want to keep the creep while all the other members will kill it on sight (unless it's an aura, and even then it's hard to control as marines auto attack creep generators).

    If it's a passive that you want, how about a passive weaker version of adrenaline or ita, or if that's too unoriginal, an aura that increases speed based on the number of effects on the person, which, from what I see about chem engineer, is based rather heavily upon these effects.
  17. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I like the idea of a passive that triggers off skills being used. I think I suggested such a thing as a replacement for Chemical Armor on the old board. Something like "While under the effect of (Talents on Right Tree), marines gain..."

    Increase Max HP by 5/10/15%? Increase Movespeed?

    Crazy part of me is thinking of some "Chemical Dependency" passive now. So you have this:

    Marines targeted by Chemical Expert talents gain 5/10/15% Max HP, 3/6/9% Movespeed increase, and 5/10/15% reduced damage from enemy attacks for 10/20/30 seconds.
    After 10/20/30 seconds marines are 1.5/3/4.5 times as likely to receive an ailment from enemy attacks. Critical hit percentage is reduced to 0%, skill cooldowns increased by 10/20/30%, effect lasts for 20 seconds.
  18. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    Hmm Im thinking for Tier 3 Field Support Tree

    Note : Field Support Chem Expert utilizes prototype stuffs they take prior outbreak so it is not technically limited to just chemical-related stuffs.

    Black Hole - Chem Expert shoots a special chemical canister into a target location that explodes into a pool of green vortex that drags any non-heroic units into the center, allowing other marines to effectively destroy them with aoe skills, however due to the power of the vortex, anything caught within the vortex gains 35% damage resistance to non-skills based damages.

    Cooldown should be high enough so he cant spam them too often. Can be used very effective on any aoe skills, but I'm thinking of synergize it with StormOps and

    Petrification - Chem Experts fires a special chemical canister that shoves a target with special chemical shell, this shell makes the target unit completely immobile and disable all of it's hostile capabilities and gains 50% higher damage resistance, the shell lasts for 30 seconds, and after initial 5 seconds, the shell starts deforming, regaining it's movespeed slowly, while also reducing it's damage resistance, at the last 5 seconds, the damage resistance diverts so it takes extra 50% damage.


    VRL-772 - Virus Removal Laser-772 is a new means for medical technology to destroy any types of virus using intense light of the UV Spectrum added with special chemical agents, not only does it destroys virus, it has capabilities to cure any likely injuries or aliments, provided that the patient has right power armor system. The Apollo Zombie Virus is a new type however, and the VRL cannot completely neutralize it.

    VRL fires in a straight line, much like a mono, any zombie-related biological targets suffer instant 150 damage and extra 50 damage for any aliments stack on them, and will become dormant for 5 seconds, during which it will takes double damage from any damage, then the virus will regains control of them, VRL can also be used to instantly destroy cocoons, athena's cocoons and any light targets.

    Any heroic marines catch in the VRL Laser is cured of all aliments instantly with the exception of SC, as well as gaining 10 seconds boost in attack and movement speed (by 25%)

    VRL is completely harmless to non-infested units as well as mechanical.

    All skill's numbers are adjustable for balance purpose ofc.

    yep VRL is an idea from PRL 412 from RE 4 XD

  19. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Going to go ahead with VRL and test it out in the coming weeks. It's unique and could have interesting gameplay applications.

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