Can we make it so that every single pub isn't recruit mode EC?

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Waves_Blade, May 9, 2012.

  1. Waves_Blade

    Waves_Blade New Member

    Based on other people's comments/thoughts I've altered the original suggestion.
    _____________
    The Proposal:

    1) If there are only one or two people less than 500 xp, allow for normal mode to be activated.

    2) If there are only one or two people less than 2000 exp (Not sure on numbers, alter as seen fit) allow for hardened mode to be activated.

    3) CHANGE the current system where we can have 7 vets and one guy just above 500 and get Vet, maybe have a 3-5k xp requirement on all players?

    Under these changes, if a semi-majority of the game is composed of newer players (3 or more), then it will still auto default to recruit.

    However, in the event that there are only 2 or fewer newer players, the game will adjust to balance the game while still factoring them in. 2 newer players with 6 more experience players can handle normal mode. 2 players with average/decent experience (above 2k or more) can potentially handle hardened.

    Examples on how this would work:

    Normal
    Clarifying normal:
    Hardened
    Recruit
    the standard 10k i'm putting is just an example. I've seen people 2k+ (sometimes lower) handle themselves well and help out newer folks (albeit sometimes with a few swears thrown about too)
    _____________
    Original post:
  2. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    So 7 "vets" join a pub, most of them just over 500XP, 1 new guy. Can't reasonably expet them to do well there, especially the noob who quickly loses where the team is and gets killed probably even pre-starport.

    Or 5 newbs, 2 guys with 100k+ XP in a pub. SXP dictates its vet mode. Same as above.

    I think its fine as is. If you want to play vet mode or NM, there's a channel for that.
  3. Pyromaniac

    Pyromaniac Well-Known Member

    Another way to look at it.

    Pub vet. Ever hear of it?
  4. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    If Rating or Sxp dictate gamemode, we instantly run into the old issue where a few gamebreaker vets can turn a normal pub into an unwinnable deathhmatch. Back when SR dictated campaign, all it took was Me and Flint to make any pub into an Apollo Sec or Veteran game...
  5. Waves_Blade

    Waves_Blade New Member

    Your applying the extremes of both suggestions to the other.

    The SXP suggestion would prevent the first, the # of newer player suggestion would prevent the second.

    Then again, I'll give you that, I did say "either" instead of suggesting a combination of things to determine recruit or not. It would be simple enough to do, I think.

    Channel: I'm aware the channel exists, I use it. I even advertise games in it sometimes. But why should people be forced to use the channel (when there potentially aren't even any games going on or not enough people to get a game going or they are all full) in order to do anything that isn't EC recruit?

    -Pyro
    Yep, I've managed to partake in them maybe 10ish times? On that note I've only ever pubbed alpha once way back when. Maybe I just pub at all the wrong times or something then.

    Actually as I type this we might get a pub vet, duno well see. (And with Dry for mad trolling)

    Edit:

    For Nite, honest question since I have no editor experience, how hard would it be to set up coding to check SXP and individual EXP in order to determine recruit or not? I'm not saying to determine the mission (as much as I would enjoy that).
  6. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    Hmm. An interesting idea but I don’t see it turning out well.

    Most people go into a pub with the assumption that it will be Recruit. It’s not uncommon for players to just leave if it turns out to be non-Recruit. The lack of pre-coordination is also an issue since most pubbers are going in with the plan to random or play a specific class, so there is big potential to have a really bad composition.

    Plus the new player gets shafted. He is probably going to have enough trouble with Recruit.

    Maybe if there was some option at the beginning for players to vote for non-Recruit mode that would require 100% consensus for Vet, but that probably isn’t a very good idea either.
  7. JAW

    JAW Well-Known Member

    This game is designed to require teamwork and coordination, having 8 random people playing on anything higher than recruit, with no planning, usually spells disaster.
  8. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    Plus, what might be weaksause for the vets might be tough for the newer players. Plus if you want something other then recruit, go to the channel and host whatever u want to play.
  9. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Nothings hard, it's just how much work you want to put into it. Only issue is the checks to make sure game doesn't read the individual exps of dropped players and factor that into its equations. But, I can't tell for certain how difficult it would be to modify the existing triggers without access to the full map. I can only view so much with a cracked version.
  10. Waves_Blade

    Waves_Blade New Member

    The bolded statement highly disturbs me. Tbh, the lack of pre-coordination is what I feel is most appealing about pubs. Taking a random group of people, throwing them together, and seeing how it turns out.

    Take the pub vet (yay!) I just got bugsplatted out of (boo). Half of the squad died between Broodmothers/Erebos swarms and then tRollRain rage-quited.

    We had a Nuker (diode I think), a jumper PF (sorry don't remember who), a medic (me!), and Combat engi (dRyRain), and one predator left after a heck-tick kite and kill erebos. We killed one worm (which spawned under us I might add) and nuked another and set off to do the rest. We might have been screwed, we might have won, I duno I got bugsplatted at this point, but that pub was more exciting than all the pubs I've had in the past week.

    see above, and this is also one thing I don't understand.

    Disaster doesn't always = bad. Some of the funniest games i've been in have been complete and utter failures. Don't always need to win to have a blast.

    I'm aware of that, its a balancing act. If the vets dont look after the newer players then the pub is generally going to fail irregardless (unless the new players get the idea to stick as a group or with the vet) or its just gona be the 1+ vets alive kitting the queen, and in essence, thats still a failure even if the vet wins.

    Read my previous post as to what I posted about the channel.

    Thanks for the response.
  11. Mick

    Mick New Member

    Unfortunately, while you may not need to win to have a blast, others do. Especially if they're new - the first game I got "carried" to the queen was probably what clinched my interest in NOTD. I finally knew the whole story line, and strove to lead rag-tag pubs through the games I joined from then on.

    This was back when there were hardly any vets - most pubs were lucky to have a mando; the "hotshots" were fresh marksmen. But the point still stands, especially with the greater magnitude of higher XP players we have today. If a new player keeps joining public games only to end up with a few bored vets (and most pubs have at LEAST one or two), I bet he's not going to have much fun after getting gobsmacked by Ere, Tart or some random zombie. He probably won't even get to see the childish glee with which you type your words as you relish surviving Ere 2. And its very likely he'll think, "Well this game sucks," and never join again.

    Yes, some are up to the challenge. But I don't think we should be forcing new players into that challenge - the Recruit mode can be challenging enough as it is to your typical "We need more pylons" SC player.

    Nothing against you, but I think what will solve this "problem" is getting more people into the channel (or channelS like the days of yore) so that you or anyone can host the "happy fun time no-coordination mode" games. It's called Recruit mode because we want to recruit new players; not throw them into a Vet and alienate (or zombie-ate) them.
  12. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    90% of players don't want to be failures. It's the exact same reason that if I do end up in a pub where the host clicks Alpha the moment he sees he can I will insta-leave. In a situation like that, I see no qualms about abandoning ship. EC Vet is a totally different monster from EC Recruit. You cannot expect the average new player to even remotely enjoy playing something that will overwhelm them either with a wave of new information or a wave of ghouls.
  13. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    ... Don't play pub if you don't want Recruit mode. They should be synonymous to you by now.
  14. Zuriel

    Zuriel Well-Known Member

    Mebbe recruit mode alpha/sec? Just throwing it out there.
  15. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Probably not the best idea, Recruit (in theory) is supposed to teach players how to do the basic mechanics of NotD before being plunged into vet with deadlier enemies, stronger enemies, more enemies and many of the safeties removed (fog of war, super plentiful ammo).

    Basically Recruit needs markers to directly tell noobs where to go for like the first half of the game. Like as you enter airlock, mark the high ground and tell the noobs to go there to survive large assaults. Same goes for eggs, mark all 5 patches, hell, mark all the eggs and give a counter to track how many left to kill, then mark the 3 high ground holdouts for post ere waves. Short version is that Recruit has all the difficulty good stuff, just needs vastly more handholding in terms of instructions/explanations so noobs know PRECISELY where to go , with no guidance from other players. More importantly explain WHY they should go there.
  16. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    Just make recruit harder. Recruit these days is too easy. I join pub, and ask new 0 xp people about game ant stuff, they always say its boring, doesn't feel like survival game at all. The reason why they saying the game is boring is, theres no urgency in game. And too long with too much idle time.
  17. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Yet they still facetank and die.

    The fact you dont respawn needs to be drilled into new players fucking skulls, to the point it hurts. This isnt fucking hero attack or spec ops. You don't come back.
  18. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    Tips and helps, well... Too many lives, and need big red text say "YOU DON'T RE SPAWN ONCE YOU DEAD" or something. This game is way too generous for new players. Need to be more grotesque and harder.
  19. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    Makes you wonder why people were clamoring for reduced spawns in Recruit mode a couple months back.

    A mostly 0xp game has so few spawns it actually hinders leveling.
  20. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    9 lives is funny as hell, because generally its "lose 4 lives to the same enemy, dont even try to run away."

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