Campaigns and new players

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Kith, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I say we remove the experience locks on campaigns. Not the classes, just the campaigns.

    Why? Well, because it'll allow newbies to experience a lot more of the game and the storyline without sinking tons of time into NOTD to get to that point. Even if people screw around and end up getting killed because there's a much higher difficulty, it's not going to turn new players off immediately because there will still be 2 other campaigns to explore and experience.

    The recent "critical changes" thread has reminded me of an old gripe that I had with NOTD and its lack of random missions that I just kind of forgot about. For new players, NOTD is incredibly linear and, in some cases, boring. It's the same shit over and over until you get something new, and even then, you're probably not welcome in organized games with the new things you've earned until you've amassed plenty of experience. Opening the campaigns up to all levels of players will lead to a lot more player interest in the long run, and I can't really find a reason to not do it.

    Yeah, you'll get troll hosts who pick Apollo and get the entire team killed, but considering the messages that are relayed to the players during the beginning segment, it's painfully obvious that Apollo is something that should be attempted with at least a semi-organized team. Allowing players a small peek at the future campaigns and difficulties can't hurt, and neither can giving them the chance to win if they get a team together.
  2. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    and no experienced player ever pubbed again...
  3. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    It would cause havoc with the experience system among other things.
    Just drag a few guys who have half a brain through an alpha and they end up with ~200xp per game instead of the 75 or so from basic pubs.

    And then there's those who just spam survival which is actually dead easy till 20.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Why do you say that?

    ... So? I don't see a problem with that.

    Then we fix Survival.
  5. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Don't unlock survival, unlock the other 2. Keep recruit mode. have a low victory and speed bonus for apollo and alpha recruit mode. Problems fixed.
  6. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    Ye, I think we need some form of recruit mode on alpha and apollo if we do this. Even with a recruit mode, alpha and apollo should still be harder than ec recruit because they need to learn that only the more organised teams that work together will achieve victory in these harder campaigns. Like Ramses said, have a lower victory and speed bonus for these games. Reasoning is that I don't want to go into pubs to teach new players, knowing that the game will end quite early if alpha or apollo is selected and normal/hardened/vet sized hordes come charging at them or whatever.

    Actually, thinking about it, several things would need to be done in this Recruit Mode for other campaigns. At the very least, I would like new tips for individual campaigns. Take alpha for example, I would like to at least have a tip saying something about the wraiths/invis mutas that are quite common near the start of the campaign. Otherwise, their lives will go down very quickly from something they cannot see. I also can't see an unprepared team get past the gas sequence because of how it requires the team to split up in their search for Dr Tanaka.

    I know how this idea is only meant to be a sneak peak at the other campaigns, but I think that alpha and apollo at normal/hardened levels will lead to more pubfails, and experienced players will be less inclined to pub and help the new players out because they know that victory will be incredibly more rare. This is why I would like to see a Recruit Mode for alpha and apollo.
  7. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    Pub ec and alpha are already quite hard with disorganized teams. Pub apollo would be a disaster. Can you imagine a new player, who never played before on airlock team? Or on the apollo team springing the ghoul trap. It’s not uncommon for someone to mess up and die in the 1st 10 mins even with experience players. Then try keeping someone who doesn’t even know what the armory is from activating it. Not to mention completing Apollo B is pretty much impossible with about 4 people or less alive (and they need to be the key ones) and Apollo A is even more impossible with a small team no matter what classes are left alive.

    Leave it the way it is. If you want to add some sort of vote where everyone needs to agree to a non ec recruit then do that.
  8. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    On one hand, new players would like to see it all and have more variety and that is a good thing. However as people have mentioned, Alpha and Apollo already are massively unforgiving of team selection and team organization. Sure I can derp around with randoms in a Apollo, but a new player locked to tech/medic/rifle? We orignally raised the limits on them to prevent people from trying these campaigns before they were ready in the first place. Both of thses stories effectively assume a level of gameplay skill and knowledge, and focus more on the teamwork aspects. Trying to figure out how ammo/weapons work while the immortals and mutas of Alpha come barreling at you? Not to mention, Alpha with no organization = minis dying = auto wipe to mutas or Titans early. Apollo with no organization? People die to agrons in airlock, team B gets swarmed with Stalkers, Armory pretriggered = auto wipe.

    Also, and most crucially of all, each story is less forgiving of death. Losing half you team in EC? No Problem! Losing half your team in Alpha. Oh crap... Losing half your team in Apollo = gg auto forfeit (at least route B).

    The problem with unlocking those games modes to all players is that, by design, those stories punish lack of teamwork, and pubs by definition lack teamwork. This doesn't even cover the trolling/griefing/curiosity killed the cat scenarios.
  9. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Why would a recruit version of Alpha have wraiths or titans? Why would a recruit version of Apollo have that many agrons, the stalker trigger be that early the map for team B large enough to even reach the ghoul traps, or the armory trigger not require the whole team? Why can't half a team win a recruit version of Apollo route B? You forget just how much control we have over what this difficulty actually means.
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    They're probably going to die, yes, but I'd much rather give them the opportunity to see that NOTD has three full campaigns to offer of varying difficulty and it's not just an endless march of Easy Company.
  11. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    We used to have just this, called EM, and... no one played it to the point it was removed. It had everything Apollo has, but the rewards were pitiful on purpose and you had shared vision, not to mention monster HP was very very low. Guess we could remove the XP locks, and then just autolock the story to EM/recruit if anyone under the XP for the story (same XP as current locks) is present.
  12. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    Personally I rather keep things the way they are. When I first started playing NOTD, what drew me into the game was the fact that there was 3 storylines and the fact that you had to gain xp to unlock it.

    It was basically the reward that drew me into this game. If you unlock all 3 storylines, it defeats the purpose of feeling a sense of accomplishment when you finally are able to unlock the Apollo Storyline.

    Also, we want players that are committed to NOTD. Essentially, I find that players who play NOTD frequently to gain XP and unlock new classes are generally players that stick around for a long time. In many cases too they also contribute more to the community by signing up to the forums and making suggestions, creating artwork, fan fiction, etc.
  13. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    EM was much easier than recruit mode is. If we made a recruit mode it would be somewhere in between.
  14. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Recruit AC/Apollo already exist - the requirement is to be lower than 1550 Srating or so.
  15. Mirage
    • Donator

    Mirage ಠ_ಠ What are you looking at?

    I'd say +1 here.


    With all honesty this was one of the 'root' reasons I decided to cheat in the first place all that time ago because I didn't want to spend so much time just to see if I liked the higher game modes. (That and the classes but that's beside the point right now)
  16. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Sure, why not, it'd make for some fairly amusing pub games at the very least. Having people argue on the main chats "WHY DIDN'T YOU STUPID NOOBS RESCUE US IN APOLLO?" "Huh, we had no idea what to do." and etc. etc. with the different quirks Alpha and Apollo has.
  17. Mirage
    • Donator

    Mirage ಠ_ಠ What are you looking at?

    Won't things like that inevitably happen in every mode until they get themselves going and learn?
  18. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    If we do remove the XP locks, I would sugguest restructuring the XP rewards accordingly. Rearrange it such that Apollo B Normal < EC NM or Alpha NM. Since we are removing any real progression to the storylines, the rewards need not progress either. Otherwise, why bother playing earlier stories? As Ghost said, everyone would ditch EC/Alpha in hearbeat, simply being carried in Apollo B would become the order of the day (220 XP easy).
  19. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    At least remove the XP lock on Alpha Company but just for the sake of sanity do not do it for the Apollo Security Team, oh the horror of it because it will leave everyone seriously confused as to what the heck is going on. Team A will rush over to Team B and lose several members along the way to Huggers and patrolling Banelings and Team B members will wander throughout Apollo triggering stuff that results in their death. And if they do get past that premature triggering of events and not understanding the workings of mechanics and bosses will only result in a bad experience. Keep it locked as to say to players "You must earn the right to play and understand this storyline". (As it is also meant to be the penultimate of NOTD and test players to the max)

    Alpha Company is the flashiest of them all and makes good eye candy for new players witnessing the Forward Observer and Flamethrower strut their stuff against hordes and interesting bosses.
  20. TuRKeYMaN

    TuRKeYMaN Member

    I agree with REAPER. With all of his points. ^^^^^^

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