BroodMother and Titan changes (Ideas)

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Peerawatz, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    Technically it doesn't change much, but more likely it is likely to finally rebalance the Brood mother purpose and Eos in general, and to reduce the complexity, yes it doesn't really change much in terms of actual game play.

    I'm considering potential changes in roles as to how Broodmother and Titans perform, now that they will have separate, lower damaging attacks.

    Broodmother ideas
    - Transfuse allied zombies, making them survive longer
    - Casts fungal growth on marines, slow/immobilize them.
    - Inspires allied zombies with buffs.
    - Energy Drain

    Titans ideas
    - Great Cleave attack, deals much larger aoe damage, but not as deadly.
    - Pure Damage attacks, no reduction by armors
    - Consumes lesser zombies to regain health
  2. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: Problem Solving Topic - Things fixed so far

    How about for titans give them something similar to the thor's immortality protocol from the campaign: once they die their husk remains there for 20 seconds with 1000 health and on a neutral team (like debris), if the husk is not destroyed in 20 seconds, the titan is revived at full health. (20 seconds and 1000 health are rough numbers that can be changed). Forces the team to focus down the already dead titans to keep them from regenerating, and they won't be targeted by auto-attacks or minis.
  3. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    RE: Problem Solving Topic - Things fixed so far

    I like this idea, makes the fights more dynamic, instead of "Plow every zombie over mindlessly"

    I'm going to say absolute flat no to this. As it stands, TONS of people absolutely despise the Infestor in ladder for this reason and this reason alone. Denying player control is A) Cheap, B) Unfair (especially in WoL fungal case, you can't dodge it) and C) Unfun. Diablo 3 has the same problem, Jailer is hated because and so is Vortex because you lose control and have to be reactive, which makes skill way less relevant. 1980's were nice and all, but they can keep their cheap mechanics.

    Gabe Newell of Valve stated as much in an interview, and I think we can agree he has a pretty good idea what makes games fun (Yes probably a logical fallacy, however he does have good credentials in this area).

    This sounds interesting, either applying speed/damage/Hp auras would be cool. Or we could try other effects, like if any kind of non normal zombie dying, Queen "resurrects" it as a normal one to continue the attack.

    This one is highly implementation dependent. Also it is inherently an imbalanced effect since one has no individual way to control energy regen at all, outside of stats (sort of) and Commando with Borrowed time. Some classes are far more energy dependent then others, some have greater energy pools so can withstand this effect better, others have greater energy regen, while others suck bad. Being drained as Assault or Rifle is an annoyance at best. Draining a Demo or Engineer is very punishing.

    If this was made into % of current energy I could see it, or even if it is % of max energy.

    Hmm... tricky to evaluate these. The increased aoe with reduced damage makes more sense for a Titan and does remove the feeling of cheap shotting from their claws.

    The ignore armor part... on one hand it screws an assault tank, but assault tanks usually do not face them (You can get a very rare spawn of Titans in NM EC, but that is part of the final waves). In Apollo you are using HP and distractions to tank, not armor, so wouldn't mind it there. The main one affected would be Orderbat. Although he can amass armor through smite/rigorousness, he does tend to focus on using his mobility to tank and maneuver and also vengeance procs/shatter to sustain him. Would be interesting to see or try out.

    I can see this, however the problem I see is that Titans primary weakness is that they are slow, having this ability being used at all will only slow them further, and in most cases, no HP gained would compensate for the extra second it gives for (Heavy DPS Class here) to unleash more damage on them (OSOK, Nukes, Full Assault combo, SMM QA with stinger/bar). Moreover (unless this is intended), it would facilitate good teams permanently stalling titans with single target damage and the Titan greedily consuming the rest of the mob to stay alive, indirectly making the team more efficient for little added cost.
    Technically, Titans indirectly already posses this effect and in a more effective manner, they spawn 2 immortals on death, who then do their thing and are annoying to fight after bringing down the titans themselves.

    Also, Elie sort of has this effect as well. I would rather we kept Boss abilities unique, and had more general purpose stuff for the "normal" mobs.

    In relation to the energy drain Peer mentioned above, I wonder if adding an enemy who functions somewhat like larva, but has no direct damage and simply attempts to drain players energy, basically manaburn effect but without the damage (or maybe even with) (Waits for Kith to shoot this down as a crazy imba bad idea :D :D).
  4. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: Problem Solving Topic - Things fixed so far

    Use the old models from bob's little friends! (but make them smaller and darker so they're harder to see)
  5. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    RE: Refinement Sugguestions

    Splitting this thread, since we are now discussing refining specific aspects. Although this probably falls under NotD suggestions, this pertains to very specific areas and would like to keep it that way as to provide developers such as Peer and Myself clear direction on what people want to see/do and for Ability to have a clear place for us to give us a thumbs up or down on the changes proposed.
  6. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Idea for an unusual Brood Mother buff? Gets an ability where it can randomly transform a zombie into another type of zombie. So something like every X seconds (3? 5?) is can transform the nearest nonheroic/nonbroodmother zombie into a random type. 30% Hulk, 10% Infested Marine, 20% Gargoyle, 30% Zoombie, 10% Devourer. Something like that. Nothing UNGODLY powerful like Slashers. Too trolltastic for my tastes. But it could give moments where the Mothers are out a chance to add variety to enemy mobs and make players sweat as suddenly something starts showing up they aren't necessarily perfectly set up to counter.
  7. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    UA3 already has Eels, who use that very model and have that very effect. No.

    Titans having cleave? Sure. Eat zombies? Also sure. Not a fan of fucking over tanks, though. EC having more anti-tank measures I'm okay with if they're done right, but I'm gonna go ahead and veto AC having more anti-tank stuff.

    Everything for the broods except for Fungal is fine by me.
  8. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    How useful is it for a titan to have cleave? How many teams do you see where people bunch up against a Titan?

    This is a controversial idea but what about its attack doing a set amount of damage in an area split between number of targets hit?
  9. JAW

    JAW Well-Known Member

    I thought titans already had cleave... In AC, the minis tend to ball up and get pummeled by anything with splash. I swear titans have splash, but it wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong.
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    They do. Peera is suggesting an even larger splash
  11. Eagle 11

    Eagle 11 Well-Known Member

    Since Cronus,lord of all Titans is shooting laser star:
    - Titans can fire a single laser beam with aoe over a medium distance,course this ability has a cast time so not instapawns.
    Peera had an Titan model with overseer on it somewhere for that.
    Other imba ideas what a Titan can:
    - Grab up to 2 Ultralisks for using one as a shield and the other as gauntlet.
    - Transport Infested Rines on shoulders for living bunker.
    - Or simply hurl that grabbed Ultralisk like a catapult.
    - ^ actually you could do that with banes and qq.
    - Grab a brain bug for attaching on head for gaining superior speed. This also grants more health since only the brain bug can be targeted in that state. (you waste a osok on it etc.)

    Note: I fled the ladder because of inba op fungal,no fungal on queens plz. (another note: i used to play Terran)
  12. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Isn't fungal already nerfed to be a projectile spell and not instant cast? Or was that a HOTS change?
  13. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    For Brood Mother... How about making their attacks not as strong but allowing them to lay batches of 3-5 eggs (killable) that spawns random combination of Zombies/Seekers/Infested Marines?
  14. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    from my point of view as typically a zookeepa engi, would broodmother buffs be permanent? if so would they stay once mced? Also would they be useable if a broodmother was mced?
  15. MIB

    MIB New Member

    I totally agree with the above, brood moms should be more of a support zombie type unit instead of being another deadly with MORE RANGE slasher! Their role should be take nice care of the zombies not some almost 1HKO thing to keep your eyes peeled for.

    In short, what's best is:
    + Zombie buffs via Brood mom support
    + Titan consume
    - No to crowd control debuffs on the players
    - I'm kinda against energy drain skill for the brood mom, the Black Ops EMP and NM Nazara does that already and it makes sense. But a pure zombie doing that? Nah.
  16. Blaze

    Blaze New Member

    thats why as a squishy class i get the ra in survival to survive the trollsy broodmother wave
  17. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    if broods lay killable eggs, please make them easy to kill. it's hard enough to kill any egg on higher difficulties.
  18. JackBandit

    JackBandit Member

    I love the brood mother ideas, but if they get changed to this I think they should be added into more storylines rather than just EC and then more than just during chapter 3. I guess they're in survival as well, but I don't remember them in anything else. Also I don't think they should be able to heal the queen as that would be overwhelming to new recruits who are gonna be the ones most affected by anything that make EC more difficult. Maybe they could heal queen in anything above recruit, but then again EC vet and nm are pretty difficult as is. :p

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