Boring monsters.

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Maniac, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    I see tons of discussion about classes but why i dont see any about Zombie? Monster? Space species?

    Blindlings does nothing, but Exp trains. I remember i suggested this ages ago, make them to decrease armor for period time if they hit players (not just blind them). Like an aliments.

    Agron and Titan charge knock back player, same mechanic as Force Push.
    When Titan charges at certain point and stop, to attack, it causes small shock wave around itself on ground to push players away if they are near by. Short Stun and MS Decrease but no damage. Anti Tankers.

    Ghouls has more chance to cause Crippling. 1/3 more than others.

    Stalker and Slasher has more chance to cause Bleeding. 1/3 more than others.

    Immotals - Animation Change after death and revive, i'm not sure if its possible but it will give an indication to players how many times you have to kill it to "kill" it completely. Like losing a arms or something.

    etc.
  2. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    tl;dr Lets add things and hope we don't fuck the game over.
    That is, change how enemies work and expect things to work out.
    Though certain enemies already have higher chances to cause certain ailments.
    And new animations are, flatly stated, time consuming without any real change.

    Adding new "Monsters" would be somewhat pointless, because they'll break everything, be cannon fodder, or simply be cheesed to oblivion.

    Just for the sake of comedy however, Infested Marines should get access to ALL WEAPONS. Except slightly nerfed versions. I'd laugh if a hoard of Infested Marines with flamethrowers incinerated a poor crowbar wielding tank, though I'm very sure I'd laugh even more if they had sniper fire or launched stingers out of the ass.

    But anyways, what happened to all the complaints about bugs? I thought there were more pressing matters then adding new content, which would likely be semi-functional at best, with the more likely outcome being buggy.
  3. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of blindlings also decreasing armor for a short time, as long as the armor reduction isn't a giant number. If the effect was to stack, I would advise putting a cap on how much it can stack otherwise people can end up with negative armor during something like a boss fight, which would screw the tank over instantly if a whole blind train hits him (assuming boss fight is one that you would tank and require lots of armor to do so).

    As for immortals indication, I'm fine as it is right now. However, if an indication is really needed, it would definitely have to be more than just an arm loss because you wouldn't really be able to notice that if the immortal is mixed in with a horde of more immortals.
  4. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    maybe color change?
  5. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Each enemy already has a unique trait, it is just most of the skilled players are good enough to circumevent or outplay them. AS for your specifc examples

    1) Anything that removes control from player = bad news usually. You have to be very careful on how you approach that kind of thing. Agrons with knockback + Charge + more then 4 = stunlock. This can be solved of course by making a player immune to knock back after being knockbacked.

    2) Blinds are already decently dangerous, it is just they often roll into teams with no support, making them freebies. Nightmare already has banes/Ghouls mixed in, but most skilled players of course know this and the instant they take a blind hit, run the other way.

    3) Ghouls already have a increased venom chance over most enemies. Stalkers/Slashers already have cliff walk and adding bleed to Slashers seems kind of overkill, given that they already 2-3 shot most players who are non tanks.

    There is a VERY fine line between fun enemy mechanics and cheap/fake difficulty. Many ideas for enemy abilities are good IN A VACUUM, but when mixed with other stuff, become stupidly unfair and un fun. Agron Knockback means that if an agron gets even 1 hit in, he is assuring a 2nd or even 3rd hit, especially on Nightmare, where he can (and probably will), charge you right after knocking you back, getting another free knockbacka and 2nd hit, which 1/2 the time will give you Open wound. In this case, knockback is fine, knockback + charge + high OW chance is not.
  6. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    With all the bug fixes that needs to be done and other gameplay mechanics to be added still but delayed due to said bugs probably gonna have to be patient till Heart of the Swarm for new enemies where the Agrons come pre-packed with the Burrow Charge ability (SO FRAKKIN AWESOME!), Swarm Hosts will play as zombie spewing support and Vipers will be the new word in aerial zombie harassment.
  7. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    and will make it easier to make hugger type mobs to drag things TO them, and not just act as a flat out disable

    scary shit.
  8. Zuriel

    Zuriel Well-Known Member

    I sure hope we get specialised anti air skills too, which would also warrant more aerial enemies. :)
  9. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    1) can simply put cooltime on charge so agron cant use charge that often. simple. You get hit by Charge then u r screwed.

    2) Blindlings are somewhat pointless and weak at current state. It needs buff.

    3) playing with venom is enough with parasites and normal zombies. And slasher should work as Anti tankers such as tank assault. It needs buff.

    I think ideas are interesting and won't break game at all and make game more challenging. They don't have be in public game, but vet game with certain sr and nm game will do just fine.
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    What you seem to suggest is "get hit = gg"

    We have rating for this already to punish getting hit (besides people losing health and dying).

    Making getting hit even more overkill is stupid. Not everyone is a kite pro and nm shouldn't require everyone to be so, otherwise only very few will play it, which is bad for the community as a whole.

    The smaller zombies maybe "boring" but given the right circumstances are actually extremely dangerous (say blindlings with hulks and agrons). Those circumstances may not arise often if you are all bunched up, but if you are in smaller teams or alone, they can be deadly.
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Funny story, I already talked to Ability about this. I've been quiet for a while, but I've been working my ass off because my contract comes to an end fairly soon. The K Report on Enemies was going to exist, but... honestly, after all of the research and weighing options and all of that? The current enemies are mostly fine. We really don't need to upgrade them, because they already have their own particular state of balance.

    Yeah, Blindtrains are EXP drops, but if you don't give them special care then you can get desolated easily. In a situation with more enemies, you have to manually target the blinds because everything else has a higher threat priority. Blindings are weak on their own because they're support enemies. If they were given more prominent spawn rates during hordes (and individual ones, not entire trains), then they'd be much more effective, but that's a case of their spawn mechanics rather than their individual stats and mechanics.

    Agrons... I'm really not cool with those having knockback. AP is right. The only thing I'm cool with having knockback is a boss, because then it's a penalty to the player for being dumb enough to get close to the huge monster that everyone's focusing.

    Slashers being anti-tank? I'm sorry, but no. Slashers are already a very powerful enemy. They're very durable, deal a hell of a lot of damage, and have lower threat priority so you have to manually target them. Making the defensive classes useless against them is folly, especially the Assault Tank. Asstank is superb defense, but that's really all he is. More often than not, the Demotank outshines him by orders of magnitude because of the wider skillset and ailment resistance of being a shield tank available to Fortdemo. There are already several anti-tank enemies, we don't need more.

    I have to say, I really think this is just a case of over-saturation. It's no secret that you've played NOTD for a long time and have tons of experience and play with other folks that also have tons of experience, and, well... doing the same thing over and over tends to get boring after a while. There's a reason I have yet to break 40k experience: I've made the decision to ease myself up a bit on NOTD so as not to burn myself out. I still play, certainly, but it's no longer the only game that I play on SCII.

    Unless I missed a memo somewhere, NOTD is nearly done. Some class reworks need to be finished, the bosses need to be touched up, the bugs need to be fixed, and that's it. That's all she (heh, Azazel) wrote, or is going to write. There comes a time where you have to find the finish line, or the game gets stuck in Development Hell. I really don't think that the enemies of NOTD need any more features or abilities, because (as Arcane mentioned), it's just going to turn out to be a case of "let's add this and hope it doesn't make everything awful". Hell, at this point, I'm not even sure Traits should be added, and instead they should be held over for NOTD2 (assuming Ability finds a team of trustworthy people to help him work on it) as one of the new features. My point is that there's gotta be an end to everything, and NOTD is coming to that end in the not too distant future.
  12. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    OMG Kith and I agreeing :D

    I'm a big fan of adding more blinds and ghouls to certains spawn waves and events where they would shine without having to change any stats.
  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    We often want the same thing - we just go about it completely different ways.

    Anyhow, like Ghost, I'd much rather see spawn variation during the higher difficulties so the waves require a wider variety of tactics and/or weapons rather than just straight buffs or changes to the enemies themselves. The biggest problem with Nightmare, in my opinion, is that it's just more of the same stuff, just with higher hitpoints and/or charge. All we need to do to fix that and hike the difficulty significantly without making it impossible is mixing up the wave content.
  14. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    You know what I love about Kith? He summarizes everything in his posts. I agree with Kith and Hufflepuff. New enemies and whatnot should be saved for the next round, but any ideas for spawn changes are welcome.
  15. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    O hai Blaqk!

    Anyhow, there is a module now in the SC2 editor for creating attack waves, I briefly looked at and might try to learn how it works, since I imagine Ability is busy bug fixing + class reworks. I don't know how NotD does the difficulty, the attack wave thing seems to be tied to the built in SC2 difficulty settings. Although it does have parts where it can fire off triggers, so maybe just code it so certain personalities/waves are deactivated with lower difficulties.

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