Basic Player Perks

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Kith, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    NOTD’s problem is that it is WAY too grindy, and we need to push quality over quantity in terms of player achievements. Getting Bronze Star or Navy Cross hardly feels like an achievement, despite how difficult they are. The new system will involve various tiers of medals, with increased difficulty rewarding better medals. As for the system itself, it will involve a simple “take two” mechanic; each medal featuring a unique benefit that only procs when the player takes said medals on a mission.

    This will make the medals more unique and interesting, rather than just being something to grind to get more stat points and immediately forgotten once earned. Of course, some of the medals will grant varying amounts of stat points, but that will be their unique function rather than giving fixed bonuses like the others.

    Purple Heart
    Requirement: Take 1,000 damage in a single game
    Increases maximum health by 50

    Marksman’s Badge
    Requirement: Get 800 kills in a single game
    Grants a 5% Critical Strike

    Medal of Honor
    Requirement: Complete the hardest storyline path on Nightmare
    Grants the player 9 stat points

    Edit: Because it's not apparent, these are just examples. I am not suggesting that these be actually implemented. The medals are just demonstrations of the system. The system is the important part.

    The current system we have is suuuuuper broken. We can handwave its replacement by saying that UGC has banned unlawful modifications to weapons due to some accidents happening with modded guns. In its stead, UGC offers Modification Packages, ones made by actual gunsmiths rather than marines with screwdrivers.

    Modification Packages follow the basic logic of the Borderlands Gun Manufacturers, where each package applies specific pros and cons to the players’ weapons.

    Some examples from the Borderlands world:
    • Bandit weapons have enormous magazines, but large reloads.
    • Jakobs weapons have massive base damage, but are not automatic (and therefore often have lower fire rates than most weapons) and have large kickback.
    • Hyperion weapons have reverse recoil (their guns actually get more accurate the more you fire due to stabilizers), but have large initial kickback.
    • Vladof weapons fire extremely quickly, but tend to suffer from a lack of accuracy.
    • Atlas weapons have exceptional stats in all areas, but are exceedingly rare.

    My intent is to do something along these lines, because this way we can actually control the results of the weapon mods rather than vets getting +20% base damage and +20% increased attack speed and +20% increased reload speed at the cost of 20% increased weight, 20% increased swap time, and 20% decreased splash radius (all of which really aren’t that big of a deal considering what you’re getting in return).

    These don’t need to change, actually. The only reason this section is here is to note that players will have access to fewer stats in NOTD2 than they do now due to the revision of the Medal system. Specific medals will grant bundles of stat points, but otherwise these will be dictated entirely by rank.

    The only thing I’m not touching at all. The current system we have works just fine.

    While this is more of a Credit Shop thing (which will get its own thread), I have every intention of seeing a system like this implemented rather than the one we have now so players can have true custom colors.
  2. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    While introducing new medals in the game could be interesting, the current requirements you proposed for Purple Heart and Marksman's Badge promotes rather selfish play.

    Taking 1000 damage each game is very easy if you're doing it on purpose, it promotes players to facetank mobs, which is not a good idea especially in nightmare games, assuming you still need to play nightmare games to progress beyond level 2.

    Marksman's Badge encourages some players to keep the strongest weapons for themselves and hogging zombie kills. Unless experience is shared equally, this could lead to consequences such as Commando being under levelled and unable to use nuke that results in a loss for the whole team.

    While the new players may support the idea of medal of honour being a lot easier to get, there is less sense of accomplishment. The medal bonus also contradicts with your intention of having luck as a stat - to add variations to how each player builds their avatar. Nine stat points is a lot and unless you can suggest different bonuses for other medals that will be just as powerful, most people will probably bring medal of honour into each game and ignoring those medals that are not as powerful. As a result... Every veteran player brings medal of honour as soon as they unlock it.

    Weapon Mods
    Two issues, people may argue that "I played so long, isn't it only fair that I'm more powerful than the new players?", if weapon mods are changed to the point where having -4/+4 is effectively the same as no mod changes due to the drawbacks 'balancing' it out too well.

    Increased/decreased magazines (with hcm as exception) should never happen, you remember how overpowered stinger would be if the ammo count increased by one right?

    I like the idea of introducing weapon accuracy into the game however, it'd make sense that automatic weapons like rifles are less accurate than marksman rifle, which fires slower as a drawback.

    I was going to mention this in a separate thread, it's good that people are aiming to get as high rating as possible, but assuming the movement speed bonus still exists, it makes the game too easy because people can outmanoeuvre zombies better.

    Even in recruit mode, the chances that new players get hit and subsequently die happens a lot more than experienced players because there are more things they can't outrun even by using sprint and hold fire together, I know this because I start with new bank playing in KR, the experience was like "running while an iron ball is chained to one of your ankles".

    Custom Colours
    Question for the custom colour: Are you suggesting that you unlock the privilege of using custom colours by purchasing it from the store? Currently I think ArcanePariah is introducing a system where players can customise the colour before they purchase it.
  3. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I think theses are mostly contrived examples, I think what kith is aiming at is more along the lines of what the heart of the swarm campaign brings, where you choose your bonuses, and they are mutually exclusive.

    This is true, and this will be kiths main task, making later rewards feel better but not be strictly better then earlier ones. In an ideal world, later rewards require greater skill to utilize, but once said skill is gained, the rewards are indeed greater. Currently medals are a rather fire and forget affair.

    Yeah this is going to be a tricky one, since the original intent was suppose to be gain one thing at the expense of another. It has to provide a net advantage, and in the long run as well (over a game).

    I'm going to assume rating reward structure will be different in NotD 2, and balanced around its challenges.

    I think what Kith is intending is just that, unless I'm mistaken. The idea being you can do selectable colors instead of the preset 16 team colors
  4. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member


    If there is one thing that pisses me off, its medals that force you to play bad in order to earn. Rewarding poor play is pointless.

    In NOTDSO, I would've earned a specific medal had I told the team to sit on its ass for around 5 to 10 minutes before starting the last mission, so that a rather normal wave would come. That is, win 5 to 10 minutes later than we did. In one day, there were 7 victories; around 14 hours spent playing the game. But each game lasted under 1 hr 50 minutes, so the 1 hr 55 minute wave that was required for the medal never came, because we had already won prior to its coming.

    In short, I didn't earn that medal that day because I simply lead the team to victory too quickly. Earning it the first time was much easier simply because I was much weaker at leading the team and consequently, we won later.

    As far as your idea's go; as long as you don't need to earn one medal to get another, I see no problem with your example Purple Heart medal.

    I'm going to assume Lacus has a mistake on how these medals will work, unless you actually plan to have people do it multiple times in order to unlock said medal, in which case, fuck that. Seriously. I'm not going to lie, fuck that. What even qualifies as having earned the medal then? And if it has multiple levels, what the hell do you plan to do? What is the difference between level 1 & level 10 MoH supposed to be then? That really is just going to be a grinding affair, not that it isn't already, but just what are you working towards?

    I'll be honest, I'm assuming you're going to make medals something like this:
    Put forth a lot of effort in order to meet a certain requirement, and once you meet it, you earn it. No grinding. Just meet the requirement, regardless of how absurd or simple it is, and you earn the medal.

    Do they feel satisfied at having finally earning something and wining? Or is it just another win until they earn something?

    Medals should be something you work towards, but not as a long grind.

    If you earn something after a hard game, you'll feel great about it. But if you earn something after many easy games, do you feel any particular joy or satisfaction?

    It is better that they are something a person works towards, not something that a person grinds towards.

    I'd rather be forced to kill over 1200 enemies in one game, than kill over 100 enemies for 10 games.
  5. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    I wasn't sure if Kithrixx meant "choose your colour" or "pay once, change your colour any time" because of the video that he showed.

    Weren't there talks about implementing an achievement system similar to what Mineralz and Star Battle currently has?
  6. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    As far as I am aware, there is a lot of grinding elements already in terms of the current NOTD on Starcraft II. This can be seen in the XP, weapon mods, Credits, Medals, and ranking. Although they are the elements that are suppose to create a sense of life duration and hook for said game and gamer respectively. It can also be said that too many of the same element is never be a good thing. There should be a sense of variation to say the least.

    Personally I will never agree or condone with any sort of medal where the requirement is to be a "douche/Hog" and not be a team player. Personally, what brings value to NOTD to me as opposed to anything else is the fact that it "encourages" team work to win. Teamwork being the co-operative effort by the members of a group to achieve a common goal. So with that being said there has to be more challenging elements to NOTD 2 that rewards Team work more than anything else and I believe if NOTD 2 is able to successfully do that then NOTD 2 in my opinion will definitely be a success.

    So with that being said I think there should be more challenging medals/rewards that rewards Team work rather than "soloing" and I use that term loosely. As far as I am aware in the current NOTD, the only challenge that rewards team work is the Medal of Honour, Navy Cross, DSM, and legion of merit to an extent. I'm not going to count Expeditionary medal simply because it doesn't require much team work to earn it. As for legion of merit, I say to an extent because you can easily earn Legion of merit on your own for any pub EC game. It's pretty much a joke to get 50 civilians on your own. As for all the other medals, you can easily earn them on your own with any random team.

    Anyways, a personal achievement system is fine by all means just as long as it is not encouraging bad team player attitude and empowers the diva attitude.

    Lastly, if I can throw this out there, I believe certain rewards for making the achievement and effort to earn that certain perk/medal should only last for one game or two games and must be re-earned each time. This is just to encourage a sense of consistency for playing better overall as a player.

    Example. The DSM medal requires a team to avoid banes, which encourages everyone in that game to be more cautious and overall play better. However, what I notice is that players that have already earned their Lv 3 DSM medal tend to be more laid back and not as caring to getting hit by banes as opposed to those that are trying to earn their Lv 3 DSM medal. This is kind of frustrating and annoying to say the least.

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  7. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Jesus Christ guys, I said they were just examples.

    And yes, later medals will be strictly better in some cases. It's easier to balance for that way, and there's no reason not to do that. "Oh, the players will always take Medal of Honor once they get it" is a really bad point to make, because members of the military are going to be bound and determined to show off their achievements by wearing their highest medals.
    The answer to that argument is that they're faster and more knowledgeable. I'm not going to allow straight damage increases like we have now - the best equipment automatically defers to the player with the best weapon mod setup. I want equipment distribution to be equally viable throughout the team regardless of player experience.

    You're assuming I'm not going to increase the magazine count by 10. Stop assuming the worst, it irritates me.

    Accuracy and recoil will be factored into attack speed and/or splash.

    This is not news. The NOTD series has always granted movespeed for ranks. Actually, the whole "stat" bullshit that allows veteran players to have net gains as a result of leveling is something strictly related to NOTD:SCII. Back in the old days, you lost hitpoints but gained weapon damage and movespeed, which worked out just fine for them because they didn't have tank characters.

    More details on this in the credit shop thread, but the long story short is you buy the customization, a window pops up, you fiddle with the various settings and when you're satisfied you press "accept" and the color is saved to your profile.
    Your assumption is correct. Theoretically, a player could potentially earn 50% of the medals in a single game. The other 50% will be class related, objective related, or difficulty related.

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