Avernum: Escape from the Pit

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Blaqk, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Blaqk
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    As far as I know, Ozymandias and I are the only ones who are actually playing this remake of a 1990's RPG, but ArcanePariah will know what it is.

    I'm currently half way through the game (20 or so hours in) with this party composition.


    Hekate
    Tank/Melee DPS

    Dual Wielding the Flaming Sword and Seeking Rapier.

    Armor rating is 74% before buffs and has maxed out Parry. Working on Riposte right now.

    After calculating, her chance to Parry is currently 46%. That means that there is a 46% chance that if she doesn't evade, she'll just reduce the incoming damage to zero. Even less fucks given! Parry, Riposte, and evasion are all rolled separately. If she doesn't evade, she'll attempt a parry. If parry fails, she'll attempt a riposte, which directs all incoming damage back at the attacker. Even if all three rolls fail, she still has a shitton of damage reduction. For example, she tanked the dragon Pyrog with little healing while the others cleaned up Pyrog's Giant minions.


    Tiamat
    Evasion Offtank/Archer

    Tiamat is just as fucking nuts as Hekate, just with more fucks given.

    Swaps between a Yew Longbow and the Ever-Rotting Bow depending on enemy.

    Currently has a total of 13 Gymnastics after training and buffs, making all but the strongest enemies have a 95% chance to miss. The downside is she has less damage reduction and half of the total HP that Hekate has. Hits are few, but require more immediate attention.

    I just maxed her Sniper skill with a +1 bonus on top from an item which is retarded OP. She now has a 50% chance that her attacks will only use 4 AP instead of 8. This same skill also gives a 39% chance to stack a random ailment, ranging from Weakness Curse to Poison. If she's using the Ever-Rotting Bow, then she has a 39% chance to stack a random ailment and a 50% chance to stack Acid.

    I'm currently working on her Lethal Blow skill, right now it's giving her a 21% chance to deal 50% more damage per shot, which considering her Yew Longbow does up to 212 damage, is considerable. To add to it, she has a chance to gain a bonus AP thanks to Gymnastics, and her Mercuric Chain Mail gives her a permanent +1 AP. The majority of the time, she'll fire two shots per round, which can be on different targets. However, she can also fire three shots off in a round, and if any of those crit, her DPR is on par with Leviathan's.

    MADNESS!


    Leviathan
    DPS Mage

    Tribal Symbol, Drake Hide Gloves, Magestone Band, Symbiotic Cloak, and the fucking Silk-Woven Cord.

    She has easily the most valuable gear of anyone in my party and her damage output reflects it, especially with the 5 points in Elemental Focus.


    Asmodeus
    Heal Bus/Buffer

    Buffs aren't as OP as they were in Exile, the original version of this sexy remake, but stack another 10% damage reduction onto Hekate's already don't give a fuck 74% and just watch them try.


    [hr]


    In my next playthrough, I want to try a Archer Tank and combine Hekate's damage reduction with Tiamat's evasion.
  2. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I'm not very far in (just started yesterday), using a str/end specced tank with currently a 52% armor rating, a melee dps dual wielder with full str specc, a full dps archer, and a mage/priest that focuses on healing and buffing/debuffing (I never really liked magic...). This is pretty much what I've used for my first runthrough of all avernum games since I started. It's pretty hard to work because melee glass cannons are kinda... well, there wasn't a taunt skill until this most recent game, and that's weak and passive. It's still a fun as hell composition and with proper positioning kicks ass. Only real times I die with it if I don't get surprised by something ridiculously unlucky is when bosses decide to charm everyone but my caster (who happens to have amazing mental resistance), and my two dps kings, who are much faster than the caster, decide to quickly take her out before she can cast unshackle mind.
  3. Blaqk
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    Oh lord... was killing a demon who managed to get a Charm spell off on Hekate. She immediately turned and one hit killed Leviathan.

    So I killed the dragon Pyrog and I gotta say, I'm pretty happy with my party. The problem was the length of the battle and the number of Giants she called in to defend her. I wound up getting flanked and lost Leviathan (after she fireblasted about 5 of them to fucking ashes) and Asmodeus got ganked by a ranged Giant with Battle Frenzy buff. Without a healer, poor Hekate only lasted a few turns against the relentless attacks and I wound up having to finish Pyrog with Tiamat and use her crazy evasion to run the fuck out.

    Best part? Even Pyrog only had a 27% chance to hit Tiamat. 13 Gymnastics ftw!
  4. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I may have to try your archertank at some point :p
  5. Blaqk
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    It's an interesting concept. You wont have parry or riposte, but with enough gymnastics you wont need them since evasion is rolled first.

    I just killed Adze-Haakai and am getting more and more disappointed with dual wielding damage output. Even with Demonslayer and the Seeking Rapier, Hekate was only doing 40-80 damage per round depending on the haste swing with a 79% chance to hit thanks to the dual wielding penalties. Tiamat pretty much never misses, having a 95% chance to hit pretty much everything, so she was pushing out a consistent 60-90 damage depending on crits and the swing of haste. Leviathan, as usual, was pushing out 60-120 damage with lightning spray depending on haste and there was so little healing involved that Asmodeus was smiting out a good 25-50 damage as well.

    I have noticed that dual wielding becomes less effective the stronger an enemy is, and not just because of the penalties. If it weren't for the fact that there are far more magical swords than pole weapons I'd use the editor to respec her for poles. Gone are the days where I'd roll with two pole meleers. =\

    Now that Leviathan has Arcane Blow, her damage output is gonna be retarded. I'm concerned that giving Tiamat the Heartstriker Bow will leave Hekate nothing more than a boring whack-a-tank.
  6. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    What difficulty do you play on?
  7. Blaqk
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    Hard. I'm too impatient for Torment.

    Also, Tiamat now has the First Expidition Bow. Same base damage as her Yew Longbow, but it adds 3 to bow skills which increases her overall damage output. I had forgotten how nice the layout of Avernum was. One of the most powerful bows in the game was in a location I passed at least a dozen times but didn't have the desire/power to get. I cleared out that Giant village just for a few more coins so I could improve Asmodeus' Return Life spell and wound up finding an uberbow. =D
  8. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I usually play torment just because you always have to throw everything you have at every monster you fight, although it is fun to do troll games on casual so you can 1-hit kill everything. :D Plus having to go back to a town for healing like 5 times per dungeon and having like a 50% chance of even minor bosses deciding to switch aggro and 1 hit kill my dps melee can be rather... tormenting at times.
  9. Blaqk
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    So, the armor cap is 90%, not 75% like I thought it was. I just hit the armor cap on Hekate.

    Also, RAAAAAAAAGE! I finally found the Hearstriker Bow only to learn it has been NERFED and RENAMED!


    First Expidition Bow
    93-259 Physical Damage
    +2 Quick Action
    +3 Bow Skill
    +2% Hostile Effect (all damage) Resistance
    3000 Gold Value


    Possessed (Heartstriker) Bow
    75-225 Physical Damage
    50% Chance to Crit
    4000 Gold Value


    Keep in mind those damage values are scaled to Tiamat's 15+3 Bow Skill.

    Considering that the +3 to Bows skill gives me more access to Battle Disciplines like Adrenaline Rush, and that Tiamat already has a decent crit chance, then the Heartstriker Bow is no longer the ultimate bow and is actually a piece of shit considering it does LESS base damage than the Yew Longbow which you can just fucking buy from a fletcher. On top of all of that, I'm not even sure if that 50% stacks with her current crit bonuses. If so, then I could achieve a 100% crit rate and the Heartstriker Bow would be worth using, but if it doesn't stack then it's utterly worthless. All of that work to get a disappointing Nerf Bat.
  10. Blaqk
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    Yeah, the Heartstriker Bow is pretty much just going to sit in Tiamat's inventory just like Smite and the Jade Halberd are sitting in Hekate's. I can't bring myself to sell the bow that I loved so much in the other games but it really is inferior to the First Expedition Bow, especially when you consider that removing the bonus 3 to Bows actually lowers the base damage by ~20. Because Tiamat's chance to crit is around 30-40 I can't really tell just yet if the Heartstriker's 50% stacks with it. It does crit more often but until I max out Lethal Blow I can't confirm stacking. Still, though, unless it crits every time, the better sound effect alone does not merit switching to the nerfed ultrabow.

    Found the Spectral Falchion near the Burning Reaches and it really improves Dual Wielding damage. It adds a +8 to Blademaster skill, which essentially raises melee damage output by 24% on both equipped weapons. Right now it's Demonslayer and the Spectral Falchion but if needed I can switch Demonslayer out with the Flaming Sword. Blademaster and Melee skills also increase the fire damage on Flaming Sword (wat?) so instead of 59 damage it now does 74 fire damage. =D

    However, I still stare longingly at the Jade Halberd and Smite and their effects and wonder if I made the right decision.

    [hr]

    Looking at the simplicity of the new stats, I wonder if it would be possible to create a pseudo-Paladin. With nothing but the base and natural stat growth, Hekate and Tiamat have 200 energy each at level 26 compared to Leviathan's 385 and Asmodeus' 325. At this point in the game I've maxed all the priesty skills and am just pumping extra points into Luck and Spellcraft. It might be a good idea to just get Priest Spells to 15 (since summoning spells are balls and you only need 15 for Divine Restoration), First Aid to 10, then pump the rest into Pole/Melee, Hardiness, Parry, then Riposte.

    The issue you'd run into is with base intelligence, you'd have shit chance to hit enemies with offensive priest spells (Divine Retribution, Smite, etc) but you really wouldn't need it if you had physical skills which easily out-damage the pitiful priest spells anyway.

    I think in my next run, I might try running with the same builds Hekate, Leviathan, and Tiamat have now, but also run with a priest-spec'd Pole DPSer. I'm thinking Pole Weapons > Blademaster > Quick Action > Lethal Blow. With Smite and the Mercuric Chain Mail, she would get +2 AP per round and a +5% chance to crit, just from those two items. The +2 AP means if she doesn't have to move, she can strike twice per round. Stack that on top of 12 Lethal Blow (before item bonuses) which is a 36% crit chance and I wouldn't be shy of DPS.
  11. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Told you swordpriests were boss.
  12. Blaqk
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    Yeah, that was the way to go. It turns out you really don't need all that much Arcane Lore. In fact, if you take the Sage Lore trait on two characters you can get by with just pumping it to 10 so you can grab Magical Efficiency on a DPS mage.

    Sword and Shield fighters are pretty much obsolete in EftP. Hekate hit the armor cap without a shield and for a good Pole fighter you can't use a shield anyway. Plus I've only come across 4 shields in the whole game worth a damn and, barring their high armor value, some weapons have better bonuses. The only shield I've kept is the one that Tiamat has. Tiamat has the Assassin's Shield for the +2 Lethal Blow and has the Seeking Rapier for the +5% crit. She has zero melee skill so they're just there for the stats.

    I think on my next playthrough I'll go for the vengeance ending and build a Paladin instead of a pure priest. There's enough good equipment out there for it.
  13. Blaqk
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    I am slightly less pissed off because it seems Heartstriker does stack with Lethal Blow. Mathematically, Tiamat should have a 95% chance to crit with Heartstriker (50% from Heartstriker + 45% from 15 Lethal Blow) and she does crit very often. So despite the fact that the unreduced damage of Heartstriker is 30-50 points lower than First Expedition Bow, a crit will add 50% damage to the unreduced base value which is an additional 50-100 damage (again, unreduced).

    The sad thing is, unless you've pumped the hell out of Lethal Blow (leveling + trainer brings Tiamat to 11) and cram all items on her (Assassin's Shield is +2, Momentum Gauntlets are +1, and Hero's Necklace is +1) then Heartstriker, the "ultimate", most valuable, and hardest to obtain bow in the game is inferior to the First Expedition Bow.

    Fuck that.
  14. Blaqk
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    Neverfuckingmind. The Heartstriker Bow has been reduced to a steaming pile of shit. I'm going to go brood in the corner.
  15. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Started a new team on Avernum 5 today, it's going to be so lolzy and very likely going to fail. My team:

    FrankTheTank: Nephilim archertank

    building dex, end, some str, lots of defense and hardiness a bit of bows so he can actually do a little damage. I'm rushing him to unlock Parry (req: 6 dex 6 def), Gymnastics (req: 6 str 8 dex), and Resistance (req: 8 dex 8 end 8 hard).


    Mrrah Deathpaw: Nephilim dps melee

    building str and a bit of int, dex, and end, lots of melee and some pole, and some quick action. Trying to rush for Anatomy (req: 4 int 8 melee or pole) and Blademaster (req: 6 melee 6 pole 6 str) in hopes of eventually hitting Lethal Blow (req: 8 Anatomy 8 Blademaster).


    Ssar Purespike: Slithzerikai paladin who's gonna get me into the Anama

    building int, some end, and a bit of str, lots of priest and a bit of pole. Trying to get Magery (req: 8 int 6 mage/priest) and then Magical Efficiency (req: 8 Magery 8 end), then to finish out with some Anatomy.


    Daenerys: weak bitch

    there so I have someone for tool use and to see how good first aid is. I gave her the frail trait (+20% xp gain) and built her into entirely tool use, nature lore, first aid, and arcane lore. She's sitting at the base str, dex, int, and end, and has absolutely no combat value.
  16. Blaqk
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    Magical Efficiency is poopy. Just sayin'.

    That sounds batshit crazy. I like it!
  17. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    i think i'm going to have to go down to hard, i can't make it out of the arrival caves...
  18. Blaqk
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    HAW!

    So I finished the Savior questline and killed Grah Hoth in a very disappointing battle. He's actually weaker than Adze-Haakai which you fight much earlier and can only pose a challenge because he has a shitton of minions.

    You fight him in this big ass room with four pillars on each side. Between those pillars are spawn points for his shitty minions. Here's how I positioned my party.

    [align=center][​IMG][/align]

    Hekate locked down Grah Hoth in her Zone of Control while she and Tiamat whacked away at him. Tiamat tanked his reinforcements but didn't actually fight any of them, all she did was attack GH. The reinforcements would bee-line right to Hekate and Tiamat, then Leviathan at the bottom with Battle Frenzy would get two blasts of Arcane Blow off in a single turn, clearing the room. Asmodeus stood between the tanks to cast Mass Heal/Divine Restoration. With as little damage as the party was taking, she would actually more often get a Smite or two off in a round.

    Easy peasy fight. Going to finish the Vengeance questline and kill Hawthorne now.


    Oh, and Grah Hoth, the intended "ultimate boss" had a 5% chance to hit Tiamat. xD
  19. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Holy fuck i never realized how much easier hard is than torment. This is ridiculously easy.
  20. Blaqk
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    So here's a little bullshit for you. Aside from butchering the Heartstriker Bow, Pole Weapons (which have always been superior, even in the oldest days) have been nerfed and neglected.

    I have two Pole Artifacts, the Chaotic Halberd which is sitting in Asmodeus' inventory doing nothing, and Smite (which is now a spear) which she has equipped for the +1 AP.

    Not even accounting for the ones I've sold, I'm currently running around with six Sword Artifacts, five of which Hekate is carrying. In addition, the Sword Artifacts are superior to the Pole Artifacts. The sword right above Demonslayer in the screenshot is the Oozing Sword. It is literally just a slightly weaker version of the Venemous Blade that she has equipped in that it doesn't have poison resistance and doesn't boost Riposte chances. It's just plain stupid to have a redundant weapon like that, especially when they're both fucking artifacts. Dual Wielding swords gives you better stat buffs and more DPR. Sword and Shield builds can give you better resistance and defense with still better stat buffs and respectable DPR. Going with poles is just pointless anymore. Poles in EftP are what Archery is in every game except EftP and A5.

    Hell, Tiamat has the damn Seeking Rapier equipped just for the +5% chance to crit. It's absurd that there are so many Sword Artifacts that I can just treat them like a piece of armor instead of planning for their use.

    [hr]

    Despite all of my bitching, I am really happy with the game. Even if there's less choice for the player party, it's still masterfully done and worth the $10 I paid.

    [hr]

    EDIT: I couldn't upload the PNG version of that screenshot because it was pushing 4MB.

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