apollo crisis

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Lightning, Jun 13, 2012.

  1. Lightning
    • Donator

    Lightning Member

    I hate saying stuff I don't have proof backing it up. I hope people of the community help me do this little survey.

    When browsing for private games , do you see any Apollo lobby emerging?
    Add a replay to gather data. I will watch them myself and give opinions afterwards.

    Then using these data, we should deeply consider these possible action.

    If the data results in inexperience players causing it to fail then
    A. Raise Apollo Exp requirement from 3500 to 10k

    If the data results in Apollo bosses being too strong, or Apollo too hard.
    B. consider tweaking the classes/bosses to a leanier aspect.

    I will love to see different modes appear in channel. I'm tired of seeing survivals and alphas during the time I'm online.

  2. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    Most people suck too much to play Apollo*. It's not difficult, that's just the truth of it. There's also no real reason to. Alpha will get you similar rewards, actually less, but it's a sure thing.

    That said I see Apollo hosted quite frequently, and the subsequent "X is broken" discussion the follows soon after it ends.

    * It should be noted that Emperor does represent the opinions of at least one NOTD Staff member. ~Kith
  3. Waves_Blade

    Waves_Blade New Member

    I'll chime in from my minor experience:

    Groups of random channlers I roll with (normal Alpha/Apollo) succeed in alphas more than Apollos. NOTE these are just your general "Type ### for alpha/apollo" games, not crazy organized stuff.

    Alpha difficulties that I note when in a channel game:

    Mobs at key points if group is derping (Titans/slashers/overwhelemed)
    chronus with an iffy group makeup?

    Other than that Alpha doesn't cause much problems as long as your not being derpy and ramboing. Cerb is manageable if the groups in one piece when we get to him. Ivax is easy if people can read CLOSE and LONGRANGE when they pop up on the screen.

    Perses is a joke himself generally, but mobs + firewave bubbles can sometimes be hilariously screwy (agrons in the bubble your in)

    Apollo difficulties that I note in channel games:

    -The start, generally half of the channel apollos I do, someones dead in the first 4 minutes if not 30 seconds for some reason.

    -Deimos can be a swing or a miss. Sometimes he gets facerolled easy. Other times our group makeup fucks us and we have to kite him for 10+ minutes straight.

    -Naz usually isn't an issue. Neither are lazors. The mobs afterwords *usually* aren't an issue, but sometimes a sneaky slasher will nab someone.

    -Apop can sometimes be an issue if people forget to NOT stand directly under him. That shit hurts yo.

    -From my experience, most groups prefer to do A, and that depends on team composition. I have only ever gotten to do one successful Hades kill waaaay back wheeen, and I've only had a few B attempts since then.

    Just some notes/thoughts.
  4. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    A lot of people just don’t like Apollo.
    Personally, it is my least favorite of the three campaigns and survival.
  5. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Apollo is fun playing, but most people shy away from that mode because it really does require an experienced and skilled team.

    IMO there's about a 98% chance that a newbie or poorly skilled vet dies.
    No inexperienced players i have ever seen lives to the end
    nor experienced players that just suck.

    One can argue that there are too many situations where one can die easily in apollo.
    Almost like a multitude of 1-3 second windows to react appropriately or die.
    But then again for Apollo, I think those situations are fine. I like them and think they are a good challenge.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Apollo is like this: It's not "dps the shit out of everything". Apollo is the gimmick storyline, where being able to control mobs and have special abilities is much more valuable than being able to hit hard and fast, so people are of course scared of it because it requires a bit more skill than the other ones.
  7. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    Here is my take on Apollo. (NM B)

    Beginning is easy. Only problem is scrubs on the Airlock team. From there someone dies to infestor banelings…rm#1. 1st holdout before Deimos is kinda a joke, just a leveling fest.

    Deimos is a good boss in its current form. Fight Seth…Get Stinger? Awesome! Don’t get Stinger. Fuck! 2nd holdout…also a leveling fest. Nazara…Have Stinger? Easy. Don’t have Stinger?...Fuck…

    Time for lasers with 0 energy. Hope someone has Inception. Quick holdout; pretty good. Can be scary with Slashers. Someone goes to get the doc. Everyone else falls asleep on highground. Hope you have a Weapons Tech. Get Open Wounds. Lame boss fight commences. It’s like Perses except with more people bleeding.

    Go activate Ivax. Good holdout; can get a little hairy. Go fall asleep on high ground again. Fight Athena. Zzzzzz. Mad Spark and Force Push do the work. Everyone else just kinda waits. Get blocked by cellular structure. Rage!

    Try in vain to secure domes. Lose 3 rating anyway.

    Fight Hades 1. Pretty much every man for themselves during this clusterfuck. Fight Hades 2. Pray your Tech doesn’t run out of energy and all your Devastators don’t die before you can kill it, cuz there sure isn’t any room to kite.

    In summary. Lots of boring holdouts and goofy bosses. ½ the team has a class that you are sitting around while the 3-4 key classes do most of the work.
  8. JAW

    JAW Well-Known Member

    Apollo does require skill, but it's so gimmicky it seems to me like it almost borderlines on the 'broken difficulty' trope. Most of the time you are betting everything on one key magical person, who has one magical ability that magically fits the missing magical puzzle piece that magically kills the boss who can magically ignore all other damage sources completely, magically. It's tough and rewards discipline, but new people have trouble learning it in bigger batches, and people like myself have beaten it fewer than 5 times and stopped playing because it isn't fun for us. Older people simply don't want to have to rm 90 times in the first 5 mins, so they tend to limit newer ppl or exclude them completely. Also, trying to get the new ppl to open the damn gate in less than 5 mins is like pulling teeth from a crocodile while it's gnawing on your arm. Im not for making apollo easier, but when nintendo uses gimmicks, you have all the tools yourself, and don't have to rely on others to not magically die.
  9. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    One of the problems with this survey is the fact that people who play Apollo often and have the experience to beat it have learned that taking in new players for the ride (or at least marginally experienced ones) will usually mean that said person will mess things up by triggering something he/she shouldn't have.

    As a result, while Apollos still do get hosted (and quite often), they are not publicized. Ninja invites are usually the way to go for high level games in NotD. Most nightmare runs are made the same way.

    Whether this is good or bad however is another topic altogether.

    Do note that there are players that are no where near 10k and regularly get invited to such games so it's not an oldies only party. Artanis and Sincoren for example.

    Both were around the 4k exp mark last I saw them.
  10. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Artanis AWOL, I forgot about him. I think we can blame D3. For the 95% of you that don't know him -- he was noticed in pub for his ability to learn, listen and comply. That's it. This has earned him more achievements in 5k XP than players like Bacana (60k+ xp) will ever earn. People don't play Apollo because it's easier to teach newbies how to beat it than the 5k-20k xp players who think they know something.
  11. Pyromaniac

    Pyromaniac Well-Known Member

    We forget to tell people to not walk through the airlock during HAL lasers...
  12. Nebibubi

    Nebibubi New Member

    Usually Airlock's North Gate shouldn't even be open at that point in the game so there's no risk of going through airlock with the proper running route. Unless you're sure you're going for Sec path A in any case or you have newbies who DO open the door ^^

    As a side note, I think its more important to remind people not to go through airlock during Survival mode during HAL Lasers or you will much likely get raped by Lela's (again, if you use the running route that goes from Mid thru Comm Tower then around airlock to end up in the Scrapyard) .
  13. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    What are some simple changes you'd like to see on the storyline that will have the greatest impact?
  14. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    I dont think Apollo needs to be changed but Alpha, why risk anything when alpha nm is a sure way to get 200+ xp? Other than that a higher reward for the risk might help attracting people to play it.
  15. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    I would say Alpha is pretty good overall. Remember when Alpha was insane back when immortals respawned 5 times? I'm not sure you want to go back to that. Quick fix for Alpha if you REALLY think it is too easy is remove or reduce mini quantity.

    As far as Apollo goes... reduce some of the mob sizes and have missions during this time that help level while encouraging team movement and less camping. (But not impossible missions like seal domes before -3 rating)
    ex. All team members must go to activate Doc b4 Apop. Replace the sitting around of the comms holdout with objectives around the map like kill turrets or something since you tend to do this at some point anyway.
    These aren't great ideas but hopefully someone else can think of ways to reduce the gimmicks and encourage some mobility. Also, I hate that a Stinger from Seth makes Naz stupid easy, and no Stinger makes it so much harder.
  16. JAW

    JAW Well-Known Member

    This is a team game, but several points hinge on a single person, then it hinges on another person, then it hinges on a random item drop, then it hinges on your dreams, then the hinges break from material fatigue and the team wipes.

    I would like to suggest that old vets take one person they don't normally play with into each run, and teach them. Newer people like me aren't learning well when there's 5 people not sure what's going on. And don't say "read the guides", most of that info will simply not stick into your brain without the hands-on experience.
  17. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    Some do like ArcanePariah and Jercy, but I don't make my own because I'm not the best leader.
  18. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Try Froblock and Infected as well. They very rarely lead but are quite proficient at it for Apollo
  19. Lightning
    • Donator

    Lightning Member

    i actually gave up on apollo now. no one except really high exper knows what they doing. i hate having to type the same thing over and over for like 4 remakes. let just say i only see 3 modes in this map

    and survival

    . the apollo part is now hidden in my eyes.
  20. Waves_Blade

    Waves_Blade New Member

    Fixed for you :p

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