Ammunitions balance

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ghost, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Prior to the fix for the old ammo bug, ammo was relatively limited each game and players needed to conserve ammo in order to not run out by the end.

    Once ammo drops were increased and the ammo bug was fixed, players now float full boxes each by the end of the game even with 0 conservation and not scouring the map for every magazine.

    The side effect this has had is that ammo wasting weapons such as the smg and laser become commonplace in use vs any enemy you see.

    Consider this:
    IVAX at 5 armor:
    HK = 29 dmg - 5*0.6 x2 = 52 dps
    SMG = 18 -5*1.5 x4.5 = 47 dps
    every -1 armor (i.e. from AP) = + 6.75 dps increase for smg, 1.2 dps increase for HK

    IVAX at 0 armor:
    HK = 58 dps
    SMG = 81 dps

    Looking at laser, its pretty much the same.

    The raw dps of these 2 weapons is on the whole higher than that of any other, but they waste ammo like no tomorrow. The issue is that since ammo is not a problem at all these days, there's no real argument you can bring against those who choose to use them, because really, they are doing more damage.

    I'd like to see ammo becoming a bit more rare and players being forced to scavenge ammo if they want to use ammo wasting weapons again.
  2. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    +1, as long as it isn't reduced too much that it becomes a massive issue, even when using less ammo wasting weps.
  3. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Drop chapter ammo drops by 15 to 20 percent, and I'm comfortable. If they're reduced any more than that, I'm going to have to request that "power weapons" get increased drops as well.
  4. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Agreed, it was difficult to not use SMG on a SS recon in Alpha, because its "an ammo waster", when I'm standing at IVAX with 2 full boxes, and like 50 mags equipped.
  5. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Somewhat radical idea:
    Reduce chapter drops by 10% only.
    Then, reduce starting mags from 40 down to 25 which is in essence 1.67 magazines x8 players ~ 13 mags total
    Randoms give +5 mags instead of +10

    What this does is take players out of their comfort zone and get them to actively pick up mags rather than survive on the initial 40 +1 mags and ask for ammo near mid-late game.

    This is for EC and Alpha only.

    For Sec and Survival, only reduce the overall ammo drops by 18% initially.
  6. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    I would go with EC and Alpha retaining their initial ammo and getting a bigger reduction in ammo drops if only because the storyline implies these 2 teams are a prepared military insertion into a place that has already seen combat (ammo in the place has been used and may or may not still be in use by survivors)

    Conversely, Apollo would have the lower initial ammo with a tad more ammo drops.
  7. QuantumMech

    QuantumMech Well-Known Member

    I agree with this reduction in ammo drops and initial ammo (carrying 2 full boxes of ammo in alpha lasts a long time, even with blood lust) But only in non recruit modes. Gauss rifles (as we all know) suck ammo like a hummer sucks gas, and considering this is the starting gun, and since I do not know if it has gone through kith's "balancing" yet, it still sucks, and should be dropped quickly, I guess, teaching these kids that almost every other gun is better.
  8. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Doing some testing, the frequency has to be -20% rather than -10% base on above idea, or -30% if starting ammo is not changed.

    Played full game from start as commando with 3 adren and smg hcc against everything in nm.
    MM OSOK with Bar and quickaim spam since start both in same game.
    Once Perses died both of us still had a full box and everyone else had nearly full boxes as well.

    Did similar in EC with dps assa and comm with smg then laser
  9. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    I'm fine reducing Chapter ammo drops by 10-20% (except for EC Recruit). Agree that it's relatively hard to run out of ammo. Any other inputs?

    Moving this thread to NOTD Discussion.
  10. Eagle 11

    Eagle 11 Well-Known Member

    Troll idea: Killed zombies have %chance of dropping ammo instead random drops
    Also i want to point that perhaps mags could be randomized so they can contain 1-2 instead always full 3.
    And agreed,in current state just cant run out of ammo.
  11. ProbeGst

    ProbeGst Well-Known Member

    i agree: no more drop, only from zombies.
    like: common zombies will drop 40% chance ammo, 0.1% flame/snipper/pistol
  12. SkullCapp

    SkullCapp Well-Known Member

    Plus reduced ammo drop will make sniper and flamethrower more useful as they conserve ammo.
  13. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    - Ammo drops reduced by 15% in all storylines except EC Recruit. (Ghost)

    This is slightly on the low end, but let's test this change first. If the change is not material enough, then we can adjust more later based on feedback.
  14. ImaDomo
    • Donator

    ImaDomo Clad In Armour

    Yeh I'm fine with reducinf the ammo by that amount, makes it even more fun and challenging. If people are complaining they can suck it up and get on with it.
  15. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Did testing on ac nm with the new ammo count and it is still too high.

    It shouldn't be possible for most people to have full boxes and some mags at the end if I was using 3adren+ speed with smg hcc all game and others to use bar.

    Keep in mind that ac only gets 2 drops compared to 3 drops for ec and sec (and continuous for surv)

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