AMM and barret

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by unknown soldier, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. introduction
    as said in my signature i am a cpl (1100 xp ) on EU i just started playing AC today i was playing as AMM and we found a barret and i took it then i had a few ideas ...............

    Barret use :
    barret is almost always used by AMM although other classes can use it in a more efficient way in my point of view for example what happens if an arms assault gets the barret and use concentrated fire, blood frenzy and ammo feed imagine the DPS compared to what the AMM can do he can just increase its damage by anticipation (>9) and concentration that's all (or can he do more) the only advantage an AMM have is no decrease in speed
    AMM damage dealing capability:

    we got the master MM what it does is makes normal fire stuns targets at long range and makes OSOK useful as it makes it kills non heroic units and deals 800 damage to heroic which is good but not game changing ability how can that ability change the game like T3 abilities should stun? a barret can stun target for 2 seconds and has a rof of about 2 seconds so can stun 1 target almost indefinitely but i noticed that this does not happen with bosses ( need confirmation ) so it will be useless as the range needed is soooo big and stun is so short and enemies are soo many . upgrade OSOK ? how can that change the game ? it can kill just one aragon or so so when you have full E and start you can kill 10 aragons not so game changing compared with almost anything (Even engi overdrive) so i think we need some rework

    Finally :
    i wish you all reached this point if so then i thank you for reading this and i really appreciate your suggestions i for myself did not play much and i do not know anything past the first 5 in EC (except what i read in wiki) so i hope for confirmation on what i said and what is wrong so it is omitted or modified

    EDIT: thanks for the responses i think i will just delete the osok part but still no one told me how can mmm change the game? it is T3 and have very small potential as a stun for 2 seconds every 2 seconds is really not that good but the upgrade to osok is good so i just suggest that this is changed a bit (buffed not nerfed :D) in fact almost no one even tried to discuss the use of barret maybe because we have a more important matter at hand so to sum up again what i want changed is the T3 (you guys convinced me the osok is good ) and maybe (not necessary a reload or equip speed for mm rifles (reload of barret is terrible even if you manually reload) and btw 1.5% of 800 is what 12 ? this is negligible
  2. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    So what exactly do you want changed?
  3. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Marksman Master stun does not apply to heroic units (intended). Otherwise, players could lock down a boss with minimal effort.

    Comparing Execute & OSOK is bad; One is near melee range, the other can be done from farther away. There is more risk in using Execute than there is in using OSOK; the risk primarily comes from the fact that Execute requires the player to move close to the enemy.

    Comparing Inbound Sickness & OSOK is also kinda bad; Inbound Sickness is an AoE skill that can injure team mates; OSOK is a single-target skill that will only injure the targeted unit. Inbound Sickness has a higher damage potential, but is also riskier to use as the target could possible move close enough to players, causing the AoE to deal FF.

    Barret does upgrade OSOK; It provides a 30% additional OSOK damage and raises the 1.2% to 1.5% bonus damage vs bosses (when using concentration stack in T3 OSOK).
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The Assassination Marksman is not a DPS in the traditional attacking sense. He is a caster. The Barrett buffs OSOK's damage and raises the percentage damage bonus. 1.5% doesn't sound like much, but when you're dealing with enemies that have thousands of hitpoints and a boss that has a hundred thousand, 1.5% becomes a lot more significant. The AMM is "less powerful" in the earlier difficulties because enemies don't have as many hitpoints, but he is effectively the only DPS that scales to difficulty.
  5. thx for replies this is just a bump post so that we go back to discussion as everyone here took it that the discussion is over and totally ignored the edit or did not see it so i am posting the edit here so it appears in the whats new (i hope our web developer will include edit date and post date)
    EDIT: thanks for the responses i think i will just delete the osok part but still no one told me how can mmm change the game? it is T3 and have very small potential as a stun for 2 seconds every 2 seconds is really not that good but the upgrade to osok is good so i just suggest that this is changed a bit (buffed not nerfed :D) in fact almost no one even tried to discuss the use of barret maybe because we have a more important matter at hand so to sum up again what i want changed is the T3 (you guys convinced me the osok is good ) and maybe (not necessary a reload or equip speed for mm rifles (reload of barret is terrible even if you manually reload) and btw 1.5% of 800 is what 12 ? this is negligible THE MAIN PROBLEM WAS IN T3 not in OSOK
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The Assassination Marksman is a "game changer" because he is able to:
    A) Instantly kill high priority enemies at significant range (Agrons, huggers, Infestors, ect)
    B) Engage in heavy crowd control by stunning mobs with well placed Monofilaments
    C) Deal significant damage to bosses regardless of difficulty

    Master Marksman's stun on hit is really not the big pull of the skill. The point of Master Marksman is upgrading OSOK into the only DPS skill in the game that scales to difficulty.
  7. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    It's not 1.5% of the osok base damage, it's 1.5% of the target's remaining health. So for example on a 100k health queen osok with barrett will do 800+.015*100,000=2,300 damage, for just 20 energy. And that's not counting concentration, anticipation, hp ammo, etc.

    Only a fool would give the amm the barrett for anything other than boss fights, and I don't see this as an issue.

    You could remove the stun from master marksman and literally no one would care.

    Level 3 osok doesn't need to be buffed. It was nerfed because all of the team buffs people used on the amm turned every boss fight, including queen, perses, and hades 2, into about 20 seconds of distracting the boss and dealing with the ambient spawns while the amm melted the boss.
  8. vexxenon

    vexxenon Well-Known Member

    I thought amm did get nerfed somewhere in the past? or was that osok fix on unintended dps? Regardless, I think amm is fine the way it is, don't see it being op on queen, takes way more than 20 secs, takes more than that for hades, maybe persus, but that depends on its hp. Using amm on ivax makes it go cloak so thats a bad idea.
  9. so practically the AMM is game changing with its T2 not T3 oh that is just wrong i think that the T3 should be buffed (remove that useless stun and increase damage or so ) what i asked is what does MMM changes not what AMM changes AMM can change the game thats why i play it :p

    PS so no changes to AMM soon even decreased reload time or ammo consumption?
  10. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member


    It did get nerfed in a sense that now osok % dmg is calculated of CURRENT hitpoints contrary to old TOTAL what effectively makes osok do less dmg as fight is progressing.
    It also got nerfed so that % dmg isn't boosted in itself, flat 1,2 or 1,5.
    Before math for osok was ((800+0,015*maxhp)*buffs on mm)*debuffs on enemy=pwnage
    Now it's ((800*buffs on mm)*debuffs on enemy)+0,015*currenthp=good if enemy got 6digit hp

    There also was a bug found slightly after nerf with barret doubling dmg of osok if target was massive what resulted in this -> nano str+pen+vrl.jpg 45k after nerf, it was fully buffed including old +100% vrl

    Now with all stuff fixed and nerfed vrl, most you can pull out of osok is somewhere in the range of 15k, normal gameplay situations not exceeding 5-6k. It still is a lot given a monkey is able to press button at 3s intervals. [thats excluding seth]


    Older untoched osok (that had a chance to crit too) went as far as 2 shoting ~190k Hades II, we've even had situations where mm landed a crit and Hades II died before his hp bar showed on screen as he can be damaged slightly earlier.


    Well no, try skipping T3 in a mode where agrons have more than 700hp (what t2 osok+conc can reach) and notice the difference. Getting t3 changes osok from waste of energy into something that actually works.
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Just because Master Marksman's primary value lies in making a Tier 2 more powerful doesn't mean that it's not a game changer for Tier 3. Realistically, OSOK becomes a Tier 3 skill with Master Marksman.
    • Agree Agree x 1

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