Alpha Company NM insanity

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Ghost, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    So we decided to play an Alpha Co NM game like we do most days and with the changes from today I must say it is rather insane now:

    Most of us had the benefit of CP, without it, it would have been over even quicker.

    During the Armory hold out with 3 infs dead and all spines, instead of the usual wave we got greeted some maybe 20-30 immortals.
    As in NM the only way to permanently kill them is now:
    Precision Shot (t2), OSOK (t2), KMS (t2), Napalm (t3), Nuke (t3), Inferno (t3) we were lucky in that with CP we all had a T2.
    Even with sniping all the immortals we could, we still got overrun very quickly as the waves built up a lot faster than we could possibly kill them.

    Adding immortals is fine, but please consider adding a lot fewer if you are going to send them that early in the game as in NM at least they are truly immortal outside of the above skills, which may not be available to most players at that time.

    Also, we had a SR of 1794 (and previously we beat NM speed on 1800 well enough) so I shudder to think of what happens on 1800SR now.
  2. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Makes me wish Shatter also put them down for good.
  3. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Agreed Ghost, and I pity you if you got even past immortals. Titans are truly a force to be reckoned with. My normal alpha last night was like "How the hell does one expect to surviva NM??".
  4. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    So, what is a titan exactly? Sounds like a miniboss
  5. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Glad I'm not the only who thought this today. :p

    Alpha NM has got a bit intense. Had a game and got to the Armory, holed up in the fort and let the waves come. Immortals descend and that was the worst of it. The slow army of undeath and persistence got between and started ripping apart from behind. Burning them or having them reduced to slag with Volatile Injection didn't help at all. :huh:

    If we got past this wave somehow the Titans and the next Immortal wave will see to our indefinite demise. Dont even want to know what the Titans would be like on Nightmare Mode. :p

    @Nicarco: A titan is a towering colossus of a zombie, very high health, slow movespeed and low armor but it makes up for all that by having a vicious melee attack (Slasher Claws - 125 damage). Worst is they spawn in packs. Worst one would be just before Perses then they surround you.
  6. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Titan seemed to move roughly at the speed of a basic immortal had some 6635 HP (1750+ SR and 6 players) and slasher claws.
  7. Klobber

    Klobber Well-Known Member

    I second this insanity. Why you no like us Abi? ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

    Here's my replay:
  8. pipeDreams

    pipeDreams New Member

    I played around 5 games in alpha today. These five games were the first times that i've ever played an alpha, so i'm not sure what it was like before. But in all five games that i played, the immortals wern't really a problem. I was a recon every game though and was lowering their ammor, so that might of helped a lot though. So i'm not sure if i really felt what you guys did, because to me it seemed like a good difficulty and was really fun. Same goes for the titans. It all felt pretty balanced.

    However, i didn't play on nightmight in any of the games, i don't believe, and i am also a newer player then most of you. So who am i to say.
  9. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Nightmare usually means 50-100% more HP, stuff charges at you with +100%ms and as and immortals tend to respawn over 90% of the time (no limit).
    Oh and you still have the same guns and skills so you aren't doing more damage.
  10. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    these assholes need to have 500 armor or something so we can finally have a damn good reason to find and use laser rifles.
  11. grandmarshal

    grandmarshal New Member

    that's the part where arty FO comes in. to slow them down but in this case, not even 7 FOs are gonna help much
  12. pipeDreams

    pipeDreams New Member

    I played a few game on nm today and it still didn't seem that bad. I thought it was fine.
  13. pipeDreams

    pipeDreams New Member

    Holy shit. I'm an idiot. I just read the wiki on nightmare mode, and i didn't play nightmare! Fuck that! That sounds insane!
  14. RiDdElOrE

    RiDdElOrE New Member

    well alpha was too easy anyway cant be that the guys who wont survive a ec vet game start to grind alpha something needed to be done .
    too bad i didnt check out the latest changes yet shame on me(not my fault tho coz no1 wants to do alpha nm anymore xD)
  15. Jercy

    Jercy Well-Known Member

    Perhaps I'm the only one to consider this, I hope I'm not.

    Ask yourselves what do you usually do in alpha? Move from point A to point B to point C to camp for a little bit. Now ask yourself what happens to me if I am sitting at point A camping and I have a bunch of zombies coming at me that just keep getting up after I killed them and everytime they get a little closer? You become cornered and you die. Now consider why Ability put in all these immoratals. Could it perhaps be because he wants you to keep moving, and not camp? I think so....

    So how about instead of complaining about little changes here and there that Ability makes to make things harder and less boring. You guys first consider why the change was made and try a different tactic to beat that part. I don't know but maybe you can run away from the immortals? Last time I checked they move pretty slow.
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    If it were just immortals you might be right. Point is with all the other chargers running after you you cannot kite them around the map.
    Besides you will lose all of sec team if you try
  17. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    The problem seems to stem from Sheng's boys. It's generally seen as needing Sheng's Boys with you to hold out against the Labs in particular. With all the boys there, you have a decent go at it. With them almost decimated/all dead, you're hard pressed even in Normal Mode. The Mear AI just isn't very good, at all, at Kite and Smite. They will get eaten up. And since Lab Rats is balanced around having Sheng's Boys with you that will leave you seriously up shit creek.

    Least that's what I'm grasping it is. It wouldn't be bad if the Immortals did turn into a kite-fest. But if it does, well, the spawns need to be rebalanced to consider that fact, and knowing that you will be without some extra 12 gauss rifles and 3 medics later on.
  18. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Jercy, I would agree, but the sheer number of them makes running impossible. Immortals on NM charge, so running is hard, and the immortals are followed by large numbers of gargs with some agrons, both of which charge, and nothing can out run gargs. The other issue with running/ktiting is that while the team will live, the minis will be exterminated, surrounded by immortals and gargs.

    I too consider a change to focus on less camping, but sadly the way way the spawns are setup and the very presence of the firepower of the minis makes kiting very unattractive. The primary issue is that it makes speed impossible because now you have to spend 15 min kiting a gigantic immortal mob and you can kiss the mini support good bye.
  19. Jercy

    Jercy Well-Known Member

    Actually Arcane, it makes speed less likely. Just because you can't run around the map to loot and do little time wasters here doesn't make speed impossible. To get speed you just need to do things the right way with the people that can do them the right way. NM speed games should not be achievable by everyone, for when they are there is no longer any pride in doing it.
  20. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Well, you HAVE to loot, now that you have just gotten your firepower halved (if you kited, the minis are basically dead, nothing can be done to save them in that scenario). SO yeah I guess you could wing it, but with no looting, you will auto wipe to lab without HMG/Stinger/Pulse/Flamers/HK's

    Yes NM Speed should not be achievable by any odd crew, but it should not depend on luck either. If a skilled crew follows a set plan/timetable, they should be able to speed a NM. The immortals are a total random element in such a plan, because you have zero idea how long it will take to kill them all (given the high respawn chance), if you kite them, and you also forfeit mini support as well. Also if sticking to said timetable, and can not loot, puts you at the mercy of whatever gear you stumble upon in order to beat Lab. Having anyone with gauss in lab with no minis for support is asking for wipe. I could test how a normal game goes with no minis for lab (just kill them myself). If GOOD teams wipe on Normal under such situations, then NM can basically be written off as impossible.

    However this may be all an academic discussion now that more abilities outright kill immortals, as per latest changelog.

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