AC NM vs SURV NM rewards

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by HalfAmazing, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. HalfAmazing

    HalfAmazing New Member

    I believe that not only me have noticed that the reward scheme for playing survival game and AC campaign does not reflect the effort dedicated to win the game. Hopefully the new developers team who are also active players will consider planning to make some changes. Sometimes it feels that the game is being abused buy some players to farm credits, rating and xp points. Anyways the rewards for AC should be at least as it is for SURV win and SURV rewards should be similar as we have for AC win.
  2. stanK

    stanK Member

    Beating Survival NM with 5 players is as simple as EC. Reward:
    5+5+7+10+15+25+30+120 = 217 xp
    (40+80+80+120+80+160+120+400) / 5 = 216 credits BEFORE xp multiplier.
    Its also likely to be a MOH game, with all its rewards

    Beating AC NM with 8 players is hard. More unforgiving than Sec NM in most regards. Reward:
    2+2+3+2+3+7+10+3+3+2+1+8+10+4+2+2+2+2+2+3+2+25+18+10+5 +2+5+5+12 = 133 + 24 = 157 xp if the run is *perfect*
    (50+150+100+215+200 + 110) / 8 = 103 credits BEFORE xp multiplier.
    MOH is doable, but not common or expected.

    More info: http://notdstarcraft.com/threads/detailed-experience-and-credit-award-breakdown.3738/

    Whoever came up with the reward system was either drunk, or didnt know what was going on but wrote code regardless. For comparison, beating Hades alone in SecNM gives 135 xp and 650 credits, which is about the same as entire AC NM. Maybe it has to do with the fact that AC was a joke for a while. But that's no excuse to leave its rewards intact when difficulty changed.
  3. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    I give you my permission to fix it.
    Imo exp/creds should be:
    AC A/B > SEC B > SEC A > SURV > EC
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  4. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    At some point credit gain per game played was capped at 500.

    That's a pretty dumb change, too, tbh.

    Storyline credit rewards haven't been reworked since circa 2012, barring the credit gain cap.
  5. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    Personally I'd rather change survival to be harder than change XP rewards.

    People don't play Alpha for the xp anyway, they do it because it's fun.
  6. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    You dont tell me what do I play alpha for.
  7. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Alpha was intended as a step up in difficulty from EC. From the get go.

    The horribly overtuned state it's in right now is exactly why it's only played by elitist fucks like us.

    There's no solid 100% way to beat the storyline right now as is without exploiting cloak from recon extensively, as is the current strategem.

    The intended difficulty curve in storyline progression is

    EC -> AC -> Surv -> Sec

    difficulty wise its

    EC Rec > EC Vet > AC Vet > EC NM > AC NM > Surv Vet > Sec Vet > Surv NM > Sec NM

    Right now the curve stands at

    EC rec > EC Vet > Surv Vet > EC nm > Surv NM > Sec Vet > Sec NM > AC vet > AC nm

    I'm sure you can see the blatant autism in that difficulty layout, that the 2nd storyline unlocked is by far the hardest. How does that make any beginning of a semblance of sense?

    AC was plateau'd so hard in difficulty because of the fact that the highest end players complained that it was entirely too easy for the rewards it offered. The overtuning it got is frankly fucking stupid and AC storyline needs reverted 5 to SIX goddamn changes before it's at a correct stage for late-line polish.

    Any attempt to drastically change balance for making the game harder, is frankly speaking, dumb.

    If you want genuinely harder, implement hell mode or get the fuck off the thread with dumb suggestions.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  8. stanK

    stanK Member

    Rewards need to be adjusted regardless of difficulty. We cant leave this easy mode rewarding so much. If someone actually makes surv decently hard with po/demo/med, they will increase the creds.

    Ill also point out -- the cred cap is bullshit. If it was capped around 750 we wouldn't even try to compare sec and surv, which would make a lot more sense. But why have this cap in the first place? Who the fuck came up with this brilliant idea? I wouldn't be surprised surv is to blame again, cos its very generous for rewarding a lot for no skill, if we remove player number cred cap and max cred cap.
  9. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Back when players such as @vexxenon and @Scary played, surv 5 man would give around 800 credits per player for win iirc.
  10. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    What do you play alpha for?
    Calm down. I can't understand your point when you rant.

    Why can't we leave this easy mode rewarding so much? Why can't we leave the credits at their current level if we make surv decently hard?

    I'm fine with giving alpha 60 XP and removing 60 XP from surv if that's what we're complaining about here, but I don't see a problem with an easy mode that newbs can play so they level up faster in an already bullshit leveling scheme.
  11. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    You don't see a problem with guy who got 100 alpha wins and got less wm's and exp than dude with 100 surv wins?

    I play alpha for exp and credits, when im bored of SEC. I could play surv then, but im disgusted with it.
  12. stanK

    stanK Member

    Wonderful. Instead of nerfing a mode that obviously is too easy and gives too much, the development team decided it was logical to not nerf the mode that is too easy and gives too much.

    Once the rewards are in their appropriate places, it will be completely safe to remove this nonsense.

    Rewards are given for effort, rockz. Giving them for nothing defeats the point of rewards. That's why having an easy grind mode is bad.

    The appropriate way to earn rewards fast is obvious -- a hard mode where you show skill. And you get rewarded for that skill. Generously. Not with a fucking 500 limit, that was introduced because.... OF THE FUCKING AFOREMENTIONED EASY MODE THAT WAS GRINDED FOR EASY REWARDS.

    From the development perspective, they should be an incentive for players to try something new. And right now AC is in trouble, while surv is receiving waaaaay more popularity than it should. And its exactly cos someone didn't do their job balancing the numbers.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  13. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    If surv didn't give any XP, it would still be grindable for MoH, DSM, NC, Exped, and Silver Star.

    I would rather perses give +100%/+150% XP, Hades B give 40% current, and GotB 50% current. Credits are whatever, IDGAF about those. They're already horrendously fucked anyway because you need at least 40k to start having disposable income for bullshit reasons.
  14. stanK

    stanK Member

    That is another problem, that IMO will be slightly lessened if modes receive more appropriate xp and cap is removed.
  15. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    Not that it changes all that much in your calculations, and it mostly amplifies your point of creds being way higher for surv.
    You forgot h3 canisters, with nature of surv you are more likely to actually find them and there are more of them in surv (3 or 4, compared to 2? in ac).

    Credit cap was existing before i could ever reach it so not much input here other than: reason i thought it existed was to keep sub 5 player games in check. Only ec -nm couldn't get near cap, even with 4 players i don't think it went over 300 creds, while sec/surv jumped over 600. I always thought cap was there to discourage the grinders (not that it worked - i shudder remembering how many 3/4man sec B we did)
  16. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    h3 canisters are only 5 credits each, so say you get lucky at seth and get 4, that's only 20 credits there. That's the same as a recruit win, except I think there may be rounding errors. Doesn't break the bank. There's some silly tier system where 3-4 give the same credits (thus 4 gives you less than 3) and 5 is the maximum amount of credits.
  17. tomazkid

    tomazkid Member

    my cred in game goes up by 10 for every H3 found.
  18. stanK

    stanK Member

    He3 gives 5, and applies XP multiplier.
    In the code it also multiplies 5 by number of marines, and then divides by number of marines immediately which results in 5 again. Probably does that cos something was changed.
    Not related do this thread, but IMO it should just give flat 10 credits per canister to everyone in game, like it does to vets. It will both simplify the code and give incentive for newbies to pick them up.
  19. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    I dont have incentive to pick it, but you can find He3 in Jerusalem:

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