AC difficulty randomness

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by stanK, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. stanK

    stanK Member

    After Alpha update years ago, it became quite the challenge. However, challenge seems random. Sometimes AC seems impossible at 2300 rating, sometimes 2450 is a joke. Two things create this mess:

    1) The ambient spawns are recreated fast, and depend only on the supply cap. What this means is if you pick a team with rifles, commandos, smms, and maybe random assa - you will kill enemies fast, and you will get MORE enemies to replenish the ones you killed. If you pick a team with say 1-2 DPS classes, rest support, u wont be able to kill enemy supply fast enough, so not much will be spawned.

    2) The lower the sq rating, the easier it is to kill enemies. Hence you kill them faster, resulting in more enemies. This is why 2400+ Alpha REALLY IS EASIER than 2300+ Alpha. In 2400 you can't kill enemies fast, so the trigger doesn't replenish them.

    To make calculations fun sq rating determines spawnfactor, that in turn determines randomized number of enemies to spawn.

    If anyone has a suggestion how we can make challenge translate better to game rating, pls write it.
  2. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    the supply maximum can depend on the rating
  3. stanK

    stanK Member

    That wouldn't solve the randomness still. And I would avoid introducing yet another factor into the system, we should reduce number of factors, simplify things.
    To clarify lets compare sec/ac spawns.

    STC2 Ambient Spawns - start at chapter 2 of sec, occurs every 5.7 seconds.
    if supplies used < 90,
    1 in 8 chance for Strangler (2), if fail
    1 in 4 chance for Agron (3), if fail
    1 in 5 chance for Wraith (2), if fail
    1 in 4 chance for spawnfactor number of Seeker (1), if fail
    stalker (1)

    AC Ambient Spawn - starts after stalker wave at AC start, occurs every 2.7 seconds
    if supplies used < 100
    1 in 16 chance for spawnfactor number of Wraith (2) / Muta (2), if fail
    1 in 31 chance for spawnfactor number of Devourer (2) / Agron (3), if fail
    1 in 4 chance for 3 * spawnfactor number of Zombie (0).

    You read this correctly guys, burrowed zombies take 1 supply, but unburrowed ones are worth 0.

    As you can see, AC spawns are rarer, but the dice is rolled more often, and when it rolls -- u can get 9 ags or 9 mutas immediately. Or maybe 27 zombies.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  4. stanK

    stanK Member

    According to AP Zombies having 0 supply is intentional, cos they aren't supposed to affect numbers of advanced zombies.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  5. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    The only issue here is if zombies come in waves. spawnfactor 9 with 100 supply looks like it will create 100 supply every 20 seconds roughly. Does this show in replays where you don't get zombies spawning?

    I have always been a fan of formulas rather than piecewise functions as well. There should not be a big jump in difficulty between 2399 and 2401 squad rating.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  6. ChuckWing

    ChuckWing Member

    Needs more difficulty at higher sq. We beat it with an all riflemen comp the other day pretty easily, and half of us hardly play anymore. I realize we are just a lucky team with no skill, but luck shouldn't be able to carry us through that kind of game.
  7. stanK

    stanK Member

    Wow, that's amazing! You guys must be the bestest of the best, right?
  8. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    NA vs EU competition plz
  9. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    Dammit, dis game have pro players?
  10. tomazkid

    tomazkid Member

    If EC NM EU wins on walk over.
  11. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    But Central-East Africa > All
  12. stanK

    stanK Member

    I've looked through NOTD 2.8 code, AC spawns had one nerf back then. After each enemy spawned, there was a random 0.3 to 1 second wait time, which can add up to quite a lot in this trigger.

    It seems the only thing that was done to make it "difficult" was this delay removed.
  13. stanK

    stanK Member

    Ok guys, i found a solution to make it less random. I moved the spawnfactor loop up. What this does is instead of having 1% chance to get 100 enemies in one go, it runs the dice 100 times, with 1% chance to get 1 enemy.

    This should make it much more predictable and easier to balance.
  14. stanK

    stanK Member

    After testing current mode, mode with 50% extra spawns, and mode with 500% extra spawns, the spawns are consistent and predictable. Mission accomplished.

    50% more ambient enemies feels fun and clean, so submitted a patch request to AP.

    500% more spawns is fun in its own way, but is not that challenging once you get the hang of teamwork. So the idea is put on hold for a while.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  15. VickHead
    • Donator

    VickHead Mercenary

    I'd like to note the +50% ambient change has caused a bit of lag for some, particularly on the last strech running to armory early game. Barely enough for me to feel it, but enough to make that section unplayable for others (Zaid has to give control to another player). I responded such to your question about resulting lag in discord, but not sure if you saw. Thanks

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