A "Luck" Stat

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Kith, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I've bounced this off of various individuals, and the overall reception (I'd say about 80% to 85%) has been positive, so I'm gonna go ahead and suggest this on an official basis.

    Add a sixth stat named "Luck" that grants the following bonuses:
    1% per point to gain a Double Talent on leveling up, capped at one per game.
    2% per point to gain an extra life on leveling up, uncapped.

    The issue with the old DT/Extra Lives thing was that you lost literally nothing when they didn't go off, because you still had the bonuses from the base stats. If the Extra Lives/DT mechanics are put into their own category that do nothing else but give you the chance for such a thing to happen, it's not so overpowered anymore. It's a gamble paid for in stat points rather than a gamble for free. The massive increases in avatar strength are gained only once the player puts forth a proper sacrifice to obtain them by putting points into something that might happen over five other things that are persistent bonuses that will happen no matter what.

    People have asked me time and time again to bring back DTs and extra lives, so it'll definitely make the player base happy. It's definitely not a priority though, so... I dunno. Something to throw in as a "bells and whistles" to boost player morale if we have the time.
  2. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I like it. So basically chances of getting a DT with maxed luck at each level:
    1 - 0%
    2 - 9%
    3 - 17%
    4 - 25%
    5 - 31%
    6 - 38%
    7 - 43%
    8 - 48%

    With maxed luck you should get early T3 every other game, but you won't have the extra energy and energy regen.
  3. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

  4. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    If you were to bring back the double talent point. I would say that make the chance of it occuring in game to be very very small.
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    With a 6th stat introduced, how does that impact the stat system?

    As is, there are 44 Stat points maximum. 10 from Medals, 34 from Ranks.

    Currently with 5 ranks and 9 Levels to each rank, that means you can max out all but 1 rank, which would be level 8 of 9.

    With the addition of Luck, there would be 6 Stats with 9 ranks, a total of 54 points to max everything out.

    The only change I could think of that would still ensure that the majority if not all stats can be maxed, would be to make it so that each medal gives an additional stat point at another level maybe at 5 or 10.

    If that was done, I wouldn't see a problem with "Luck" being added.
  6. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Personally I wouldn't mind an additional stat point at level 10, got all of them there besides Bronze and MoH :p
    I'm more inclined to say tying additional stat points to level of MoH would make them more difficult to obtain and more rewarding.
  7. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Wasnt dt removed because you argued that it completly broke the balance because people got skill x early? I dont remember that the fact that you got +energy too was ever considered a problem, nearly everyone i knew got the stats for the dt chance not because there was anything else associated with it. Dont get me wrong i never thougt dts were bad but i dont see how this is more balanced than the old stats.
  8. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    >_> Medal whore. (Jkjk.)
    Anyway I can imagine trying to get level 10 Bronze Star. The picture I'm getting isn't pretty at all. I'd agree with putting the reward with MoH levels instead.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I don't think 9% (and that's non-stacking, so it's a flat 9% instead of 9% at level 1, 18% at level 2, ect) every time you level up is too large.

    It makes people choose what fits their playstyle more at maximum ranks/medals rather than just everyone having the same bonuses. I've always disliked that you could, essentially, max out every stat.

    Correct. That was also almost a year ago, and I've gained some experience since then. Have you ever done something for a reason, only to find out later that the reason you had was wrong but you were right in doing it? That's essentially what happened here.

    DTs were powerful because they upset pacing, but the biggest issue (that I have come to realize) was that there was no penalty whatsoever in speccing into the old INT. Even if you didn't get a DT that game, you still got 45 bonus maximum energy, which is A LOT. With the Luck stat, if you don't get a DT, then you're out 9 stat points that could have been otherwise used to boost the other various parameters of your character. They're still very powerful, but they're only very powerful when they happen as opposed to the old system where INT was powerful all the time and then EXTREMELY powerful when a DT happened.

    I would really rather not. Like I said, I'd like to expand the choices, not the supply. It won't hurt to make people make a decision.
  10. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    I support this idea. I do like the cap on one DT per game.
  11. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

  12. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Indeed MSluiter, indeed. I still support the original removal of both life gain and DT chances.
  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Man, I just answered this. These were my opinions of nearly a year ago. I've come to the realization that the DT chance or the Extra Life chance was not so overpowered, it was the fact that it was tacked on to something just as powerful as any of the other stats which made Endurance and Intelligence mathematically the best stats to have, period. Putting DTs and Extra Lives in their own stat, I.E., gambling for effectiveness, is not so bad.

    Yes, it's still a massive jump in avatar strength either way, but it's no longer "being handed out like candy". It's something that you actually have to sacrifice for as opposed to something you get in addition to an already viable massive bonus.
  14. HDD
    • Donator

    HDD Well-Known Member

    For High-level player, This will be again candy. Most of the people that kept/keep playing NOTD for a long time have already 30+ in stats points in average. Since they pretty much know to not get hurt and also you are aware that most of the stats are generally focus in INT for energy and the left-over goes on the other stats. Don't we have already enough Bonuses?? Ratings, Medals+Promotion (Stats) and Class Points. Its a lot of reward if you ask me. They are long term reward indeed but its probably enough in the current state.

    I don't mind the idea, but i'm suggesting its probably best if the % to make it happen is a little bit more lower and keeping the cap for double talent and add it to Extra Life. 1 Double Talent/Per Game and 1-3 Extra life/Per Game.

    Edit: Another quick suggestion. We could make the bonus Innate to the Karma Stats. CAP and % is also maintained But then again we run into High level player issue who already own the max karma long time ago!
  15. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    I'll have to agree with Kithrixx, previously it was removed because many people relied on maxing out both intelligence and endurance to win the game (with lower rating for a few extra lives), but now it will become something that will only benefit you if you're willing to play with normal stats, at least when you're still a low rank.

    Also, even though no one has achieved it so far, eventually someone will end up with nearly maxed out stats if they play enough to get 350k experience (I'm looking at Downloading right now) and all level 3 medals. Having another stat to add points into does add variation to how to 'build' your play style.

    Having up to 18% chance to get extra life each level isn't so bad, but 9% chance of getting talent point probably is though, what about 1% on the first level and add 0.5% per luck point?
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    This might needs its own thread, but considering all the things Karma used to do before Mossy and what it does now (like almost nothing), are we intending to use that stat or might we just as well get rid of it?

    HDD raises an interesting point in making some stats tie to Karma and give an incentive to stay in games and don't TK etc. A good behavior point if you will.

    Karma is these days also a lot harder to obtain than it used to be (easier to get Karma in pub than it is in NM). Used to get up to 5 in NM but nowadays you are lucky to get 2 for winning NM. And when playing NM, you tend to have a lot of remakes which in turn eats at your karma. In a way it might even promote playing of pubs to build karma.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I suggested something similar waaaaaay back when in the K Report on Player Incentives involving bonus stats from Rating, but people got mad about it because it catered to keeping your rating up. Dunno about tying it to something that's even more difficult to obtain. Honestly, I think we should just abolish the Karma system and just put a higher fluctuation of Rating so when people do stuff that tanks Karma now, they lose WAY more Rating.

    Just a thought.
  18. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Balance wise the concept is fine - with no new additions to total stat points and DT capped at 1x. I'm not sure if a 'Luck' stat fits NOTD. Probably a more scientific/medical name for it? Ideas: Potential, Adaptation, Resourcefulness
  19. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine


    A point I want to get addressed is the abuse of this. Early game you throw in 9 stats in hopes of getting lucky and before the stats lock you may or may not get lucky and then you switch back to your normal game stats.

    How would you prevent this?
  20. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    You couldn't prevent this short of locking stats after first level up. And currently people do already game stats before Seth for example.

    I do think that since there's an incentive to get more bonus lives still with the stat, people are unlikely to remove their points from it unless all they wanted is the DT.

    Also, if you do game the stats and remove it, you have a lower chance of getting DT/EL next game, when you play a class you have CP in (you can't adjust stats prior to getting CP level)

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